RIP(or is it RIH?) Hugo Chavez

ohkcrlho

ohkcrlho

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Araysar_sl said:
reagan_taliban_1985.jpg
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i knew about this meetings but not reagan's words ahah
i mean, i think we all know how moral he was.just ask the people of Nicaragua,Honduras
 
Void

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You mean the meeting in 1985 before the Taliban even existed?

Just because someone makes a picture of it on the internet doesn't mean it is true.
 
Araysar

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Vvoid_sl said:
You mean the meeting in 1985 before the Taliban even existed?

Just because someone makes a picture of it on the internet doesn't mean it is true.
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Taliban existed since the late 1970s, they were already assisting the other Mujahadeen from Day 1 of the Soviet Afghan War. They might not have been known as the Taliban in 1985 (in the White House they were known as freedom fighters, mujahadeen, etc.) but its pretty much the same people, with the same goals and same ideology.
 
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foddon

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Zeus_sl said:
Someone really started a thread to mourn the death of a dictator?
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I would think even someone as dense as you would realize not everything is as black and white as your stupid fucking talking heads make it out to be while reading this thread.
 
khalid

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Araysar_sl said:
but its pretty much the same people, with the same goals and same ideology.
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No, they aren't. Their members may have come from the Mujahadeen but plenty of Mujahadeen had nothing to do with the taliban and didn't have the same goals as them or their ideology.

But hey, don't let truth get in the way of your funny picture.
 
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Mikhail Bakunin_sl

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khalid_sl said:
No, they aren't. Their members may have come from the Mujahadeen but plenty of Mujahadeen had nothing to do with the taliban and didn't have the same goals as them or their ideology.

But hey, don't let truth get in the way of your funny picture.
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Yeah Araysar, it's totally ok that we funded the best killers we could find because once The Ultimate Evi Of Communism was pushed out of Afghanistan, they started fighting each other.
 
Araysar

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Mikhail Bakunin_sl said:
Yeah Araysar, it's totally ok that we funded the best killers we could find because once The Ultimate Evi Of Communism was pushed out of Afghanistan, they started fighting each other.
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Radical Muslims that formed Taliban, Mujahaddeen, etc. dont have the same goal of oppressing women, living in a patriarchial society, restricting everyone's rights but their own and waging Jihad in their spare time?

Tell me of some of these massive differences between the men who eventually formed the Taliban like Omar Mohammed and the men who fought with Mujahadeen like Osama Bin Laden?
 
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Mikhail Bakunin_sl

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Araysar_sl said:
Radical Muslims that formed Taliban, Mujahaddeen, etc. dont have the same goal of oppressing women, living in a patriarchial society, restricting everyone's rights but their own and waging Jihad in their spare time?

Tell me of some of these massive differences between the men who eventually formed the Taliban like Omar Mohammed and the men who fought with Mujahadeen like Osama Bin Laden?
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They disagreed about who should be running things in the power vacuum left by the soviets?
 
Dashel

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An op-ed but interesting none the less.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/06/op...anted=all&_r=0

NYT_sl said:
Actually, it was bungling by Ch?vez-appointed business directors who tried to impose pseudo-Marxist principles, only to be later replaced by opportunists and crooks, that hit Ciudad Guayana.

Underinvestment and ineptitude hit hydropower stations and the electricity grid, causing weekly blackouts that continue to darken cities, fry electrical equipment, silence machinery and require de facto rationing. The government has no shortage of scapegoats: its own workers, the C.I.A. and even cable-gnawing possums.

Reckless money printing and fiscal policies triggered soaring inflation, so much so that the currency, the bol?var, lost 90 percent of its value since Mr. Ch?vez took office, and was devalued five times over a decade. In another delusion, the currency had been renamed "el bol?var fuerte," the strong bol?var - an Orwellian touch.

Harassment of privately owned farms and chaotic administration of state-backed agricultural cooperatives hit food production, compelling extensive imports, which stacked up so fast thousands of tons rotted at the ports. Mr. Ch?vez called it "food sovereignty.
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Food sovereignty, I like that.

NYT_sl said:
He spent extravagantly on health clinics, schools, subsidies and giveaways, including entirely new houses. Those employed in multiplying bureaucracies - officials lost track of fleeting ministries - voted for him to secure their jobs.

His elections were not fair - Mr. Ch?vez rigged rules in his favor, hijacked state resources, disqualified some opponents, emasculated others - but they were free.

As Venezuela atrophied, he found some refuge in blaming others, notably the "squealing pigs" and "vampires" of the private sector whom he accused of hoarding and speculating. Soldiers arrested butchers for overpricing.

His own supporters increasingly blamed those around him: by 2011 you could see graffiti with the slogan "bajo el gobierno, viva Ch?vez" - "down with the government, long live Ch?vez."
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hodj

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Araysar_sl said:
Radical Muslims that formed Taliban, Mujahaddeen, etc. dont have the same goal of oppressing women, living in a patriarchial society, restricting everyone's rights but their own and waging Jihad in their spare time?

Tell me of some of these massive differences between the men who eventually formed the Taliban like Omar Mohammed and the men who fought with Mujahadeen like Osama Bin Laden?
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Ostensibly, the US was backing primarily groups who were allied with Ahmad Shah Massoud, who were in open conflict with the groups who became the Taliban.

The Mujahadeen was simply not a cohesive body in any way such that it could be said that it spoke with one united voice about issues. It was as divided as it could be.

Now, realistically, a whole shit load of the weapons the US sold to the Mujahadeen who were on Ahmad Shah Massoud's side ended up in the hands of the side that later became the Taliban, because derp once you sell the weapons to one group its easy enough for them to trade some of them to other groups for various reasons.

Its not really fair to characterize the whole Mujahadeen as Sheik Omar types, but its hardly honest when someone pretends the US wasn't really arming everyone but the Soviets in the conflict, because we most absolutely certainly were.

Ahmad Shah Massoud was generally a pretty good dude though. He was building schools, was for some extension of rights to women, what have you.

Too bad he got blowed the fuck up about 3 days before 9-11 though, and I'm sure if you dig enough, the man had his skeletons as well.
 
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Mikhail Bakunin_sl

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Eomer_sl said:
That op-ed is total bullshit, because it doesn't suck Chavez's dick for having the balls to stand up to the US and energy companies. That's all that matters, remember?
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It's total bullshit because it insinuates that there's a serious debate about him being a dictator.
 
Eomer

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Mikhail Bakunin_sl said:
It's total bullshit because it insinuates that there's a serious debate about him being a dictator.
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There is/was such a debate, given how he ran the country, intimidated the media, brought the judiciary to heel, used state funds to support his party, and so on. No different than with Putin in Russia or Mugabe in Zimbabwee. I would say that Chavez and Putin aren't or weren't outright dictators, but they're certainly authoritarian leaders who are/were well on their way to becoming dictators. Mugabe I'd say is, but given that he's been "elected" and ostensibly agreed to share power with his opposition (at least in theory), I don't think there's a hard and fast distinction between he and the other two.

And keep in mind, the author of that article went on to say that he wasn't a dictator or a democrat, but a hybrid. I think that's pretty accurate. Not to mention that he said such debate missed the more important points of his leadership, like performance and competence.
 
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