RIP(or is it RIH?) Hugo Chavez
- Thread starter Araxen
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Saddam had his gold plated AK47's, one of Chavez's weaknesses was for motor racing. He got his government owned oil company to pay for one of his countrymen to take a seat in Formula 1.
The cost, a cool $46m in 2011 with the cost going up each year to the value of $60m by 2016, by far the largest pay driver deal in F1 history. Maldonado has been a highly visible and loud pro-Chavez supporter whilst he has been part of the F1 travelling circus to the surprise of no-one.
http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/02/15/ma...iams-for-2012/
The cost, a cool $46m in 2011 with the cost going up each year to the value of $60m by 2016, by far the largest pay driver deal in F1 history. Maldonado has been a highly visible and loud pro-Chavez supporter whilst he has been part of the F1 travelling circus to the surprise of no-one.
http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/02/15/ma...iams-for-2012/
Loser Araysar
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If those are things that make Chavez a "dictator" then I can just as easily argue that Bush was a dictator.
assaulted democracy via PATRIOT ACT
violated human rights via torture of political/military prisoners, rendition of prisoners to black CIA sites, Abu Ghraib,
packed the judiciary with his own judges (Alito, Roberts for SCOTUS, many more in circuit)
dismissed multiple US attorneys to prevent them from investigating Republican crimes
misappropriated government money by handing out cash to cronies in form of no bid contracts
stole the 2004 election
I'm not saying that Chavez was entirely right for doing some of those things but he was in an entirely different set of circumstances where he wasn't just fighting western stooges lined up to run against him but also coups, assassinations attempts and rigged elections - all sponsored by the West.
Save the word "dictator" for guys like Stalin and Hussein, not Chavez.
'
assaulted democracy via PATRIOT ACT
violated human rights via torture of political/military prisoners, rendition of prisoners to black CIA sites, Abu Ghraib,
packed the judiciary with his own judges (Alito, Roberts for SCOTUS, many more in circuit)
dismissed multiple US attorneys to prevent them from investigating Republican crimes
misappropriated government money by handing out cash to cronies in form of no bid contracts
stole the 2004 election
I'm not saying that Chavez was entirely right for doing some of those things but he was in an entirely different set of circumstances where he wasn't just fighting western stooges lined up to run against him but also coups, assassinations attempts and rigged elections - all sponsored by the West.
Save the word "dictator" for guys like Stalin and Hussein, not Chavez.
'
It was always vastly amusing watching the Dubya administration bitch about Chavez "fixing" elections, too.
Really?Really?
Really?Really?
Eomer
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And again, I don't necessarily disagree with you. Neither does the author of the NYT Op-Ed that Mikhail was so eager to dismiss on the sole grounds of him acknowledging that there was some debate about whether he was or wasn't. And yes, there was plenty of debate about whether or not Bush was becoming a dictator as well. A simple search for "Bush dictator" will turn up plenty of hits. Acknowledging that people discussed whether or not he was a dictator does not automatically mean that someone agrees with the premise.
Loser Araysar
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I don't think those points are even remotely as important as the (undisputed) legitimacy of the elections that put and kept him in office. Whatever his performance, as evaluated by the citizens of the country he was president of, he was a success.
In precisely the same sense there is "debate" about whether or not bigfoot exists. Is bigfoot worthy of being mentioned in the biggest newspaper on earth? It implies a level of legitimacy for the position that is not warranted.
Eomer
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Several of the links I posted were not Op-Eds.
While the elections are considered "free", they've not necessarily been considered fair when Chavez has (again) shut down most media that opposed him and used government and PDVSA funds to lavish regions and people with gifts from on high, with his name on them. Read this report if you're interested:http://www.cartercenter.org/resource...-final-rpt.pdf
You mean the media that actively participated in an attempted coup?
Yeah people voted for Obama because he gave them gifts. Got it.
We only hate him because of Venezuela's geography really. The Caribbean is an American Sea, as the Med once was for Rome. If you border it you need to fall in line.
AladainAF
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Besides the really silly notion of "stealing" the 2004 election, Obama has done everything else you've listed outside of the attorneys. In fact, in some cases - like violation of human rights and assaulting democracy, he's doing it more so.Is Gitmo closed yet?Are we killing american citizens without due process now?Are we still handing out cash to cronies in form of no bid contracts?
Yep. But I know, republicans are vastly worse than democrats, so all this is okay. np. This is all just rabblerabblerabble. fingers in your ears. Who cares. no big deal. etc.
Yeah you're right McCain or Romney would totally wouldn't have been as bad/worse on those vectors.
TrollfaceDeux
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i don't even know what McCain stands for anymore, or the senior republicans who do not know how gov't works.
Loser Araysar
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Quick question.
What happened to you in the last few months that made you stop posting and made you so profoundly more stupid? Is it the lack of interaction with those who are better informed than you?
1. In the medicare discussion you ramble on about how government intervention makes everything more expensive and worse, yet self-admittedly you acknowledge that medicare (that very same thing that the discussion is about) saves money and keeps costs lower than private health insurance, thus leading to a profound, facepalming, "WTF!?" moment. Instead you ramble about how government makes some other stuff more expensive that you don't specify.
2. Similarly in the passage above where Obama is just like Bush except not because of A and B. Yeah and my mom would be my aunt if my dad fucked her sister instead. So from this 2nd claim I can only derive 2 conclusions, so pick one:
A. Bush, Chavez and Obama (but not really because he didnt do A and B) are all dictators
B. Neither of them are dictators which I bet really rustles your jimmies when it comes to Barry Fuhrer Soetoro Obamonongo and Hugo Chavez.
Loser Araysar
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Did he give them Chavez-Phones and free healthcare check ups?
That son of a bitch....
chaos
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I saw a couple but they didn't have verifiable information. Like that one you posted referencing some Venezuelan org that apparently doesn't exist or something. I did see the Human Rights Watch article, but it is cray long and without references so it is hard to gauge. Which is kind of what I'm getting at. I don't know what to believe or not believe about this guy based on what we know.