Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

Now that I think about it, the Enterprise has a pretty bad track record of arriving too late to prevent planets from imploding.

The First Order might not even have been Snoke's real focus. It may have just been some kind of phantom menace. It accomplished what he needed.






(sorry)

Kreugen_sl said:

The First Order might not even have been Snoke's real focus. It may have just been some kind of phantom menace. It accomplished what he needed.






(sorry)

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Hayden Christensen wasalmost in TFA as Anakin's force ghost. They even iterated through different versions of an older Hayden as anakin in the concept art:

Force ghost Vader to Kylo: LOL you F-ed up.

I'm not sure I buy the idea of him coming back in a Dark Side sort of way because his character "flow(s) back and forth between Darth Vader and Anakin." Umm... it DID, but that all changed at the end when he saved his son and redeemed himself. It would kill the redemption story if he can reappear and show evil tendencies. I'm fine with them bringing him back, but it should be to either:

1) Mentor Luke
2) Mentor Rey
3) Tell Kylo to get a clue

Wouldn't that have been a pretty big departure from the established lore concerning force ghosts? When Ren was talking for Vader's helmet didn't he say "Show me again ..."?

dodged a bullet

Good god. Watching Hayden cryehdhdjsj's face again in Star wars would be cringe worthy.

Kylo talking to an empty mask was a much better option. Not only does it make him look batshit nuts, but he doesn't even get a response from dear old grandpa.

So here's a question that makes a bit of a difference - how old was Ben when he started training with Luke? Han and Leia's conversation seems to imply that they were raising him themselves, then he started to "go Vader" (become a total fucking brat) so they shipped him off to boarding school with his uncle and that's when they "lost him."

Figure he was 15ish when he helped (or led?) the coup, which would have been ~15 years before TFA. But we really have no idea how long he was at Jedi camp.

That whole "too old to begin the training" thing seems like it was a pretty good rule. Start 'em before they can walk or throw them into a desert for a couple decades to see how they behave first.

The Edge_sl said:

I'm not sure I buy the idea of him coming back in a Dark Side sort of way because his character "flow(s) back and forth between Darth Vader and Anakin." Umm... it DID, but that all changed at the end when he saved his son and redeemed himself. It would kill the redemption story if he can reappear and show evil tendencies.

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That would have made zero sense.

I too prefered that Kylo Ren spoke with an empty helmet. It lets you believe what you want, whether he really saw visions or he is himself delusional. In fact, despite Force Ghosts being officially real in the story, I always thought it would be better if we were certain they aren't really visible to anyone except Luke or the person "seeing" them, as if we, the audience, are simply having a visual representation of a feeling the Force is giving Luke. You kind of get that feeling at the end of ROTJ because Luke is looking at the three ghosts and no one else notices them, but it always bothered me a little that when you're dead you can basically appear at will, seemingly.

It is likely that Kylo Ren had visions of Vader's past when he touched the helmet, since the movie goes strongly in the direction that certain objects can be imbued with emotions or feelings if they belonged to a Force user, like Anakin's/Luke's first saber. If Kylo Ren saw visions of Vader's past with the helmet, it could explain why he has become so fanatical about finishing his crusade against the Jedi, not fully realizing that Vader eventually redeemed himself in that regard (I believe in the novelization Snoke tells him flat out that Vader was weak for breaking at the end, and it would have been better if he'd killed Luke when he could).

Runnen_sl said:

(I believe in the novelization Snoke tells him flat out that Vader was weak for breaking at the end, and it would have been better if he'd killed Luke when he could).

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Yeah Snoke actually puts the blame for the collapse of the Empire entirely at Vader's feet,NOTLuke's.



This was a pretty radical interpretation of the OT that claims that Vader actually started his own redemption back in ESB, when he persuades the Emperor that he should capture Luke instead of killing him. Most people see the whole trilogy as Luke redeeming his father, in fact some EU stuff built on that theme.

Only in ESB you discover their father/son relation. So....it's kinda difficult to see Vader redeeming himself before that.

just saw this. lots of thread to catch up on. so, posting first impressions, then going to go back, and laugh at what Im sure others already brought up.

Overall, about what I expected from J.J. Alot of flash, missing substance, or a logical backing, and alot of nostalgia, to the point of almost painful at times..

J.J. doesn't know how big space is. I don't know why he thought it was a good idea to do the Vulcan planet blowing up within visible sight distance to other planets.. which shouldn't even be in the same solar system. AGAIN..
But, even after that, the real issue is totally failing at selling distance and time for travel.
Rebels somehow locate, scan, and ID starkiller planet in minutes. then, declare its charging up and will be ready to fire in 15minutes. And somehow come up with a plan, mount an attack on this planet in another solar system, within 5 minutes, to spend 10 minutes fighting, and Zero travel time. How did the First order even build the thing, if it was that easy to find, and scan?
This totally flys in the face of everything the universe is built on. Stuff can't be this close. Luke's unchartered solar system can't exist if traveling is that easy and fast. Final scene did this as well, without cutting to someplace else, during Rey's trip. No illusion of time. they needed a scene cut elsewhere, or to her on the Falcon doing something, to suggest travel time.

Of course the superweapon draining a sun, and only being able to fire once or something is a bit silly as well... How did it fire the first time, if it consumes the sun?



net bitching about being a mary sue, wasn't as bad as I was expecting. The force persuade out of nowhere was a bit much. how did she even know that was a thing? The resisting Kylo was a bit much, but also easily explained by how big a shit Dark Jedi Kylo ren was. Dude almost lost a lightsaber duel to a stormtrooper.

Leia not having an force training still is a bit silly imho too. This also kindof aligns with the marysue complaints. Rey is inexplicably capable with the force, without training. Why isn't Leia so capable without training?
I do hope the Revan guessing is correct. She inexplicably good, because she was the student that killed the others, despite the claim it was a boy, and got mind wiped for it.
She is show over and over doing things she doesn't know herself how she did it. flying the falcon and that trick somersault, to give Finn a clear shot. This could be explained with the force in general.. But does really seem like a Chekhov's gun. But at the same time.. J.J. is rarely that subtle or patient..

Qhue_sl said:

Supreme Leader Snoke is much more concerned with getting Kylo Ren and Hux off the base than he is with defending the thing.

I think ultimately that Starkiller Base was not the major resource hog that the Death Stars had been. Sure there is a massive machine that is carved out of the planet, but that could easily just be something that was built by droids. You only ever see a relatively small number of humans on the base, at best we are talking thousands and not hundreds of thousands. Starkiller Base was meant to blow up the Republic and it did that. Sure it would have been nice to take out the Resistance base as well, but really that was a secondary target. Could be a resource to use when aiming to supplant the Republic and bring order to the galaxy, but its hard to blow up civilian planets and still convince yourself that you are the good guys.

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It did its job, yeah. it nuked the senate. The Republic is dead.
which yeah, as others mentioned.. this was oddly not really touched upon. a good thing to have cut back to, while Rey was traveling to Luke... Some fallout of the Republic in disarray.

It sounds like it survived from Lucas' script actually.