The NSA watches you poop.

chaos · Jun 25, 2013

fanaskin_sl said:
what was the "grave damage" snowden caused? the existance of a program will cause grave damage? is that because when rats know they are being watched rats behave differently?

Bro, the term is "exceptionally grave damage.' Neither one of us is in any position to judge the damage done to ongoing operations by the release of classified information.

a_skeleton_03 · Jun 25, 2013

fanaskin_sl said:
swim in his information like scrooge mcduck swimming through a pile of gold coins? cause he really financially benefitted from all this you know what I mean. Maybe snowden is trying to trade it for putins superbowl ring.

YOU HAVE NO CLUE IF HE IS BENEFITING FINANCIALLY YET YOU PEROXIDE GUZZLING MORON

He has already had more than one person offer to fly him around the world to evade the USA and foot all of his legal bills which will be catastrophically large. That alone is a huge amount of money.

He has admitted he took a job at the NSA for a fishing expedition, he didn't know what he was going to get but he just wanted information.

YOU should be angry at that. Why? There might have been more serious things the NSA is doing but he took the first juicy tidbit and fled the country ..... he isn't a hero. He is a money grubbing whore.

Araysar · Jun 25, 2013

a_skeleton_03_sl said:
He is stringing it out to maximize his popularity. It's bullshit and anyone who isn't enamored with him knows it.

Lol at him taking the Booz job just to get closer to the NSA.

He's not trying to maximize his popularity. Why would he? So he can live in some gilded cage like Assange for the rest of his life, purely at the mercy of someone else?

He sacrificed any semblance of a normal life to try and bright to light a terrible wrong that is being done and instead of addressing that, you want to punish him because he "tattled" on the US government who made up its own laws to conceal those wrongs.

All Snowden is trying to do is ensure that his sacrifice isn't swallowed up by the 24 hour news cycle, and disappears beneath the waves of the news of Kim Kardashian's new crotch spawn.

Araysar · Jun 25, 2013

a_skeleton_03_sl said:
YOU HAVE NO CLUE IF HE IS BENEFITING FINANCIALLY YET YOU PEROXIDE GUZZLING MORON

He has already had more than one person offer to fly him around the world to evade the USA and foot all of his legal bills which will be catastrophically large. That alone is a huge amount of money.

He has admitted he took a job at the NSA for a fishing expedition, he didn't know what he was going to get but he just wanted information.

YOU should be angry at that. Why? There might have been more serious things the NSA is doing but he took the first juicy tidbit and fled the country ..... he isn't a hero. He is a money grubbing whore.

Getting money to pay legal expenses isn't exactly hitting the jackpot. That's like me throwing myself in front of a truck, just so I can get just enough cash to pay my hospital bills.

Araysar · Jun 25, 2013

chaos_sl said:
Bro, the term is "exceptionally grave damage.' Neither one of us is in any position to judge the damage done to ongoing operations by the release of classified information.

No Classified information was released.

Snowden was very careful about that.

chaos · Jun 25, 2013

Yeah that isn't even close to true.

Araysar · Jun 25, 2013

Iannis_sl said:
Look dude, I'm saying it takes more than "broke an unjust law" to become an Real American Hero. You can say that what Snowden did is justifiable and make that argument -- it's a very good argument to have. You can't make the argument that the oath-breaking by itself is right. Hell, Weaver is more of a "True American Hero" than Snowden is. You don't even give a fuck about Snowden yourself, you give a fuck about the ideal of transparency that he has temporarily become associated with. Stop conflating the man and the ideal if you want him to be more than a Folk Hero.

Personally I think Snowden should receive the judgement of his peers on American soil by a (PUBLIC) American court. He has undeniably committed a crime and needs to task for that. But living for 15 years in habitual paranoia in exile in some shithole third world country seems entirely out of proportion as well. He did break his bond -- and if the cause was truly just then he should be content with the responsibility of his action. THAT would serve to make the man himself more heroic.

How is Weaver more of a hero than Snowden? How is Weaver even a hero?

Snowden exposed a massive violation of civil rights by US government, possibly the biggest one since the Nisei camps or the segregation. Weaver was just a nut who by all accounts attacked some US marshals and then turned his house into the siege fortress when the Feds came by to collect their dead marshals.

Araysar · Jun 25, 2013

chaos_sl said:
Yeah that isn't even close to true.

The information that the government has may be classified, how it collects that info shouldnt be.

Seems like all you federal lackeys from a_skeleton_03 to you - have a hard time making that distinction

chaos · Jun 25, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
The information that the government has may be classified, how it collects that info shouldnt be.

Seems like all you federal lackeys from a_skeleton_03 to you - have a hard time making that distinction

"shouldn't" is an opinion. The information was classified. Still is, actually.

a_skeleton_03 · Jun 25, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
He's not trying to maximize his popularity. Why would he? So he can live in some gilded cage like Assange for the rest of his life, purely at the mercy of someone else?

He sacrificed any semblance of a normal life to try and bright to light a terrible wrong that is being done and instead of addressing that, you want to punish him because he "tattled" on the US government who made up its own laws to conceal those wrongs.

All Snowden is trying to do is ensure that his sacrifice isn't swallowed up by the 24 hour news cycle, and disappears beneath the waves of the news of Kim Kardashian's new crotch spawn.

I understand when you take a job to start fishing for information and talk with a film producer through the whole thing you don't get to call yourself a "hero".

You don't get to claim that the "thug life chose you".

A real whistleblower releases ALL of their info right away and in one shot. They don't string it out a few pages at a time.

You don't talk to a film producer and run around the world claiming you are sacrificing any semblance of a normal life.

Here is a pro tip. If you want to not have to run for the things you have done, don't do them or do them anonymously.....

Araysar · Jun 25, 2013

chaos_sl said:
"shouldn't" is an opinion. The information was classified. Still is, actually.

Vatoreus Malfost_sl · Jun 25, 2013

chaos_sl said:
"shouldn't" is an opinion. The information was classified. Still is, actually.

So, is it your opinion that anyone who breaks any of their nation's laws in an effort to expose wrongdoings in that nation, should be given up to said government for trial/punishment? Or just when an American does it to the American government?

Araysar · Jun 25, 2013

a_skeleton_03_sl said:
I understand when you take a job to start fishing for information and talk with a film producer through the whole thing you don't get to call yourself a "hero".

You don't get to claim that the "thug life chose you".

A real whistleblower releases ALL of their info right away and in one shot. They don't string it out a few pages at a time.

You don't talk to a film producer and run around the world claiming you are sacrificing any semblance of a normal life.

Here is a pro tip. If you want to not have to run for the things you have done, don't do them or do them anonymously.....

This isn't the 1970s with Daniel Ellsberg anymore, brah.

The consumption and dissemination of information has changed. Get with the times, grandpa.

fanaskin · Jun 25, 2013

Here's the problem with oaths, the people you make an oath to might not take it as seriously as you do, That was something I learned after noticing most german officers cited their loyalty oath to hitler as the main reason they never did anything to stop him.

Araysar · Jun 25, 2013

Speaking of Daniel Ellsberg - should he have been tried for revealing "classified information"?

chaos · Jun 25, 2013

Vatoreus Malfost_sl said:
So, is it your opinion that anyone who breaks any of their nation's laws in an effort to expose wrongdoings in that nation, should be given up to said government for trial/punishment? Or just when an American does it to the American government?

I don't spend much time thinking about what people should be tried for in foreign countries. But... yes, I guess?

Araysar · Jun 25, 2013

Should the guy who blew the whistle on America's Tuskegee Airmen syphilis experiments have gone to jail too?

Eorkern · Jun 25, 2013

Lol a_skeleton_03 with his definition of what should be a real whistleblower.

He has admitted he took a job at the NSA for a fishing expedition, he didn't know what he was going to get but he just wanted information.

Does someone have a source on that ?

the guy gave up his whole life/family/country for what he did, and the more the US will try to sanction him, the more credit to what he said/will say imo.

Vatoreus Malfost_sl · Jun 25, 2013

chaos_sl said:
I don't spend much time thinking about what people should be tried for in foreign countries. But... yes, I guess?

So if tomorrow, a North Korean officer or high ranking military member releases a shit ton of classified North Korean information that could assist in bringing that regime down, he should be ignored and shipped back to Kim Jong-Un for summery execution?

chaos · Jun 25, 2013

fanaskin_sl said:
Here's the problem with oaths, the people you make an oath to might not take it as seriously as you do, That was something I learned after noticing most german officers cited their loyalty oath tohitleras the main reason they never did anything to stop him.

There it is, my old friend.

It doesn't matter how seriously you take something. An agreement was made freely by an individual and an oath taken.

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The NSA watches you poop.

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