The NSA watches you poop.

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chaos

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he lied about the collection of data, he pretended it didn't exist snowden hadn't "blown the whistle" yet, he was straight up lying to congress about the nature of the "secret program".
What collection of data are you talking about? I haven't see anything that says the NSA is collecting data. They need FISA warrants to get any info from the companies and not on US citizens unless intel oversight rules are met. I am having a hard time seeing how you are so sure he lied, knowing only what we know now.
 

fanaskin

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all you gotta do is goad the apologists they make themselves look foolish.
 

fanaskin

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What collection of data are you talking about? I haven't see anything that says the NSA is collecting data. They need FISA warrants to get any info from the companies and not on US citizens unless intel oversight rules are met. I am having a hard time seeing how you are so sure he lied, knowing only what we know now.
That information does not exist purely on private databases, it's blanketly copied and made usable at any time, just because there is a pretend lock and key on this information does not make the ACT compiling these large data centers all over the country right. just the action of storing all this information is an abuse of government, for fucks sake man it's literally the same thing the nazi's did.
 

chaos

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No one is apologizing for anyone, that shit is in your mind. Do you have more information than is being reported about the NSA activities? Or is this some more conspiracy bullshit?
 

chaos

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That information does not exist purely on private databases, it's blanketly copied and made usable at any time, just because there is a pretend lock and key on this information does not make the ACT compiling these large data centers all over the country right. just the action of storing all this information is an abuse of government, for fucks sake man it's literally the same thing the nazi's did.
Except that isn't true. It is not being copied. At least, not that we know right now. All we know is that capability exists. So unless you know something that isn't being talked about in the media, I don't see any evidence that he lied.
 

fanaskin

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So they spent billions of dollars to setup the infrastructure to copy major telecom traffic to not use it? If they aren't using it why do they need all this memory to store information in data centers? they are spending billions of dollars on information storage because they don't plan on using it?
 

tad10

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Except that isn't true. It is not being copied. At least, not that we know right now. All we know is that capability exists. So unless you know something that isn't being talked about in the media, I don't see any evidence that he lied.
You are either willfully blind or an NSA shill.
 

chaos

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So they spent billions of dollars to setup the infrastructure to not use it?
From what I understand those data centers you are referencing are still being built, and could have any purpose. You made a very specific charge, that the NSA director lied when he said to Congress that they are not collecting on hundreds of millions of Americans. The existence of a data center doesn't prove he is lying. Proof that he is lying would prove that he is lying. The information we have now just doesn't support that. I wouldn't be surprised to find out they are analyzing internet traffic in some way. The phone thing I still think is total bullshit and will until I see the proof.
 

ZyyzYzzy

RIP USA
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Fana watch out bro, you know more than the general public. You don't want that TS/SCI/poly clearance to get revoked, then you couldn't do work on all those SCIFs
 

fanaskin

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Im talking about all the private telecom companies installing information copying abilities in all their communication lines.

The system of undersea fiber optic cables carries 99 percent of international telecommunications. The NSA is not tapping the fiber network at the two-dozen cable landing stations in the US where overseas traffic enters the US. Instead, the agency has installed sophisticated "optical splitters" or data interceptors at major commercial exchange and switching hubs well within the shoreline. It is gathering vast amounts of information.
Bamford interviewed Mark Klein, an AT&T employee who exposed the NSA's tapping of the communications infrastructure in 2006. As early as 2003, Klein became aware of government monitoring at AT&T's San Francisco hub with the installation of a Narus intercept traffic analyzer, an advanced computer system that taps directly into the fiber optic lines. Klein said, "What I saw is that everything's flowing across the Internet to this government-controlled room. The physical apparatus gives them everything. A lot of this was domestic."
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013.../infr-j25.html
Narus initially specialized in high speed data filtering systems that differentiate email, chat, calendar appointments, draft folders, address books, etc., to calculate telecom processing fees. As Bamford explained, "Following the attacks on 9/11, Narus began modifying its system and selling it to intelligence agencies around the world, who used it not for billing purposes but for mass surveillance."
Today, as a subsidiary of Boeing, the latest generation of Narus systems is capable of "deep packet inspection," the ability to distinguish between different planes within the data flow, and examining Internet traffic as it passes through the 10-gigabit-per-second cables at the speed of light. According to former NSA intelligence official William Binney, the NSA has these systems installed at "10 or 20" switches around the country, and they are managed remotely from Fort Meade. Binney says the NSA is challenged with what to do with the 20 terabytes of intercepted data being captured each minute.
 

Loser Araysar

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government spying on american people = conspiracy bullshit. got it.
 

Neki

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Rand Paul accuses James Clapper of lying to Congress over NSA suveillance - Guardian

The pressure on the Obama administration?s top intelligence official, James Clapper, increased Tuesday when a popular libertarian US senator said he had lied to Congress and suggested he consider his postion.

"The director of national intelligence, in March, did directly lie to Congress, which is against the law," said Rand Paul, a Kentucky Republican who is considering a 2016 run for president, on CNN Tuesday.

On CNN, Paul came close to saying that Clapper, the director of national intelligence, should step down after Clapper misleadingly told the Senate intelligence committee in March that the National Security Agency did ?not wittingly? collect data on Americans? communications. Paul said Clapper would not serve in any administration led by him.

After the Guardian?s disclosures that the NSA collects and stores for five years the phone records of millions of Americans, Clapper conceded he provided the ?least untruthful? answer he could in a public forum.

A US congressman, Justin Amash, has already urged Clapper to resign. Paul questioned whether Clapper could continue in his post, saying that he could not "imagine how he would regain his credibility, when you lie". The White House is standing by its intelligence director.
 

fanaskin

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How much "grave damage" did the NSA director cause by lying to congress?
 

fanaskin

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http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57...s-phone-calls/

The National Security Agency has acknowledged in a new classified briefing that it does not need court authorization to listen to domestic phone calls, a participant in the briefing said.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed on Thursday that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed "simply based on an analyst deciding that."

If the NSA wants "to listen to the phone," an analyst's decision is sufficient, without any other legal authorization required, Nadler said he learned. "I was rather startled," said Nadler, an attorney and congressman who serves on the House Judiciary committee.
 

chaos

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How much "grave damage" did the NSA director cause by lying to congress?
I still don't see it proven that he lied. Rand Paul says he did, but Rand Paul is a fucking lunatic. Verizon claims that they get FISA warrants for the phone records. The director of the NSA claimed that they weren't collecting. Everything else sounds like speculation.
 

fanaskin

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theres 2 hairs to split, the collection of metadata on millions of Americans not even suspected of commiting a crime, and the actual recording of phone calls.

The meta data part I think isn't really debatable and just by itself is enough to call the program a gross violation of the 4th amendment, none of these people who are having their information compiled where ever accused of a crime.

I think we both realize that the internet is too new for as many protection laws to be written for it, so any digital information (including internet phone calls, all contents of emails, text messaging, anything you backup to the cloud ect ect ) are gone through.


You might have a point that they don't currently record every single phone call(which we may find out about in the future), but if that is your red line man are they doing everything in their power to grab every bit of data even remotely related to an individual.

even without the recording of everyone's phone calls just the act of compiling metadata on every american kind of violates the "innocent until proven guilty" angle.
 

Skanda

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We live in a vacuum that Snowden is a piece of shit. That is reality. He is absolutely in this for himself. He is NOT a hero. He is a guy trying to make a name and a buck for himself. He needs to be tried for treason and then go to jail. No death penalty. Doesn't even need to be life.
I know someone who won't be invited to the jury!