The Zionists are whining thread

Abefroman · Aug 7, 2014

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
Really? Please explain to me how each side benefits from continuing the Gaza war. Do a little compare and contrast for me. BTW, there is currently another unconditional 72 hour cease fire on the table from Israel, which Hamas is currently refusing. They're set to start firing rockets again at 8am tomorrow. I guess they figure they have the Israelis on the ropes now.

Canada would probably be a bad choice, as their government is even more pro-Israel and anti-hamas than the US is, by a long shot. They've already dropped all UNWRA funding in light of the "Jihad school" report I posted earlier.

It gives Israel an excuse to obtain more land and key Hamas members continue to get rich.

Abefroman · Aug 7, 2014

OneofOne_sl said:
They didn't ambush the car - they were clearly blocking the road. Now, they did move around to make sure the car couldn't pass by them - but protestors and paparazzi do the exact same thing.

And the "decent" Israeli kept right on going after he hit the kid - that's a hit and run isn't it?

(Again, I agree with you, I'd have hit the gas too, but I'm simply putting this in context of what already occurs even in America. They do it for different reasons than our asshats, but they are all basically doing the same thing)

Protestors and papparazzi dont't have a reputation for blowing themselves up or trying to kill people here.

khalid · Aug 7, 2014

OneofOne_sl said:
They didn't ambush the car - they were clearly blocking the road. Now, they did move around to make sure the car couldn't pass by them - but protestors and paparazzi do the exact same thing.

Huh? That was completely different than paparazzi or protestors in the US. For one, they were throwing rocks. Two, there was a car behind him making sure he couldn't back up. Three, if you stop and they smash your window, you will probably be dragged out of your car and beaten to death. Shit like that doesn't happen with the press or protests in the US.

Frenzied Wombat · Aug 7, 2014

Cad_sl said:
I shouldn't act surprised by this, but jesus. Thats some fucked up repugnant shit right there.

Well, Westerners simply can't wrap their mind around the incomprehensible concept of intentionally killing your own civs for PR. It sounds so ludicrous that without damning evidence you sound like a desperate nut by even proposing such. But the reality really is that Hamas is a "death cult". Their mantra is "we love death like the Jews love life". It sounds like almost comical rhetoric, but it's at the core of their belief system, and they've been programming the Palestinian population to believe the same for years now. Martyrs are not just those killed by Israel, but also includes anybody who is killed in the process of either helping the "cause" or advancing Islamic beliefs. So, if a Hamas gunman kills civs while fighting, intentionally or otherwise, no biggie-- they're martyrs in Paradise now. That Palestinian woman who brought her son to an Israeli hospital to have his heart problem fixed (linked earlier) and claimed if he died it wouldn't bother her at all? That's the mindset propagating through their society-- death means nothing but salvation.

Frenzied Wombat · Aug 7, 2014

OneofOne_sl said:
They didn't ambush the car - they were clearly blocking the road. Now, they did move around to make sure the car couldn't pass by them - but protestors and paparazzi do the exact same thing.

And the "decent" Israeli kept right on going after he hit the kid - that's a hit and run isn't it?

(Again, I agree with you, I'd have hit the gas too, but I'm simply putting this in context of what already occurs even in America. They do it for different reasons than our asshats, but they are all basically doing the same thing)

To me it looks like driver swerves to the side (while simultaneously honking) to try and avoid hitting the kid, and the kid intentionally changes direction so he gets slammed. Look at it again bro.

And it isn't a hit and run if people are attacking you. When being attacked by a mob, who the fuck stops to get out and check if their assailant is ok??

Chanur · Aug 7, 2014

Tuco_sl said:
So to be a little ostentatious, the only people interested in demilitarizing Hamas are not the people involved in the situation?

Israel gets land. Hamas stays in power and gets fed money from outside Arab sources. Outside Arab sources have a reason to globally shake their finger at Israel.

Who suffers? The Palestinian and Israeli people. Along with the western world who gets to hear how terrible it is for Palestinians (while not hearing about shit like the ISIS starving out people on mountains).

The buffer zone is to minimize risk of attack from Gaza.

fanaskin · Aug 7, 2014

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
Their mantra is "we love death like the Jews love life". It sounds like almost comical rhetoric

because that is comical rhetoric the actual quote is

"From the Al-Qassam Brigades to the Zionist soldiers: The Al-Qassam Brigades love death more than you love life."

that's not a "civilian" message

Cinge · Aug 7, 2014

Tuco_sl said:
So to be a little ostentatious, the only people interested in demilitarizing Hamas are not the people involved in the situation?

Israel gets land. Hamas stays in power and gets fed money from outside Arab sources. Outside Arab sources have a reason to globally shake their finger at Israel.

Who suffers? The Palestinian and Israeli people. Along with the western world who gets to hear how terrible it is for Palestinians (while not hearing about shit like the ISIS starving out people on mountains).

Just to note on the last little part. It's crazy how much news coverage this gets compared to the ISIS stuff and that stuff makes this seem like playground fighting.

fanaskin · Aug 7, 2014

Israeli's are mostly European origin Isis people aren't, we really don't hear that much about the massacres in Burma either, no people of "note" were involved.

Frenzied Wombat · Aug 7, 2014

fanaskin_sl said:
because that is comical rhetoric the actual quote is

that's not a "civilian" message

That "message" is taught to civilians. Do you think they skip over that part at Hamas schools or UNWRA Jihad camp? It's a quote that is constantly repeated by Hamas directed at its citizenry (watch anything on Hamas TV), as well as quoted by the civilians themselves.

I posted this earlier, is this woman not a civilian?Moral asymmetry in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - YouTube

These constant messages sent over public TV to all Gazans, are these not civilian messages ?Hamas using Palestinians as human shields: We desire Death as you desire Life - YouTube

What about this one, that basically bluntly states that it's the message for the children?
We love death - YouTube

fanaskin · Aug 7, 2014

the exact opposite way you should fight extremists is to engage them directly, You legitimize them and give them credibility. if Palestinians are radical Israel had a large hand in making them radical as well, Israeli's still have to martyr or persecute Palestinians for them to be mayrtr'd or persecuted. The hardliners in Israel couldn't survive without someone to demonize like Hamas either because the radicals need each other to survive.

you can show people from all societies at various points in history willing to die for idea's or ideologies that's nothing new or uniquely barbaric either.

Gavinmad · Aug 7, 2014

How do you avoid directly engaging someone who is firing rockets at you?

iannis · Aug 7, 2014

fanaskin_sl said:
Israeli's are mostly European origin Isis people aren't, we really don't hear that much about the massacres in Burma either, no people of "note" were involved.

I easily agree with that. Israel is an American responsibility, like it or not, so our interest is just going to be more involved.

I honestly think that part of the ISIS thing is an easy kind of... hell, I dunno what to call it besides terrible. But you remember that Kinnison skit? "Starvation in Ethopia? GO WHERE THE FOOD IS. I'LL GET A FUCKING UHAUL. GRAB YOUR SHIT." If Christians in Mesopotamia haven't leftby nowI guess it's just easier to dismiss the entire thing as "what the fuck are you thinking?". That's obviously ridiculous and ignorant, but it's a really easy way to frame the entire situation.

Cinge · Aug 7, 2014

Gavinrad_sl said:
How do you avoid directly engaging someone who is firing rockets at you?

Was going to be my question. I guess fanaskin wants to just ignore them. Think he even said something like "Eat shit sandwich", which I took as "just suck it up", but he edits so much.

Frenzied Wombat · Aug 7, 2014

fanaskin_sl said:
the exact opposite way you should fight extremists is to engage them directly, You legitimize them and give them credibility. if Palestinians are radical Israel had a large hand in making them radical as well, Israeli's still have to martyr or persecute Palestinians for them to be mayrtr'd or persecuted. The hardliners in Israel couldn't survive without someone to demonize like Hamas either because the radicals need each other to survive.

you can show people from all societies at various points in history willing to die for idea's or ideologies that's nothing new or uniquely barbaric either.

Riiiiggght. Nothing barbaric about teaching your kids to embrace death more than life, and to blow themselves up or throw themselves in front of moving vehicles for PR purposes. But I'm glad we moved on from it being a militant message to a societal one.

The militant groups in pretty much every other middle eastern culture, are they a result of Israeli persecution too? Stop looking at Palestine in a vacuum, and start looking at them in the context of the rest of the middle east. Don't forget, doodling Mohammed on a cocktail napkin is justification enough for militant action to the majority of the middle east. It really doesn't take much tooffendMuslims..

fanaskin · Aug 7, 2014

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
The militant groups in pretty much every other middle eastern culture, are they a result of Israeli persecution too?

militant groups exist in every culture, ukrainians have militant groups, americans do too, germans had many militia's take hold of their society not long ago, it's not uniquely "barbaric" (as in the greek usage "people who aren't greek(westernly civilized)", then used by romans and disseminated throughout western society). It really is interesting where that word came from and it's historical usage, it's basically a slander word which can function to build cause for aggression among greeks then romans and whoever inherited western civilization from then on.

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
Stop looking at Palestine in a vacuum, and start looking at them in the context of the rest of the middle east.

yeah isis considers hamas an enemy because it tried to negotiate with israel, so does egypt and saudi because they threaten the legitimacy of their governments being muslim brotherhood. if you're just gonna start saying all arabs are against israel that's laughable, iran was a major ally to israel under the shah, israel and saudi governments are fairly close and egypt's military government is too. these all go against your broad strokes that you can't work with these "barbarians"

every justification you construct is based on the implicit bigotry that these people are different from the rest of the world and conversely israeli actions are justified against barbarism, you might as well be a roman senator talking about jugurtha's barbarism it's the same tripe for thousands of years.

Abefroman · Aug 7, 2014

You really think Eqypt and Saudi Arabia have farily close relations with Israel?

fanaskin · Aug 7, 2014

on certain things, it's not really populations interacting it's government agencies, saudi and israeli share common enemy in iran.

I feel a counter question to yours is do you really think afghanistan and pakistan are close friends to america?

OneofOne · Aug 7, 2014

fanaskin_sl said:
every justification you construct is based on the implicit bigotry that these people are different from the rest of the world and conversely israeli actions are justified against barbarism, you might as well be a roman senator talking about jugurtha's barbarism it's the same tripe for thousands of years.

That really about sums it up for FW. Well put fanaskin.

Abefroman · Aug 7, 2014

fanaskin_sl said:
on certain things, it's not really populations interacting it's government agencies, saudi and israeli share common enemy in iran.

I feel a counter question to yours is do you really think afghanistan and pakistan are close friends to america?

First of all Saudia Arabia doesn't even have diplomatic relations with Israel. They do what's best for them and sometimes they have similar interests. This in no way allows a jump in logic to think they are fairly close. If it didn't benifit them financially they would love nothing more then to get rid of Israel.

As for your question. I would never say that because it's nonsense. You can go link some stupid shit where someone says we are close friends with them or some other bullshit propaganda but in reality, no we are not.

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