Thor: Love and Thunder (2021)

Sanrith Descartes · Sep 13, 2022

DickTrickle said:
Yeah, maybe because my expectations were pretty low after reading this thread, I didn't find it to be putrid, but it was entirely forgettable and didn't balance the differing tones at all. Really hated the idea of Thor-ifying all the kids at the end and Gorr felt like he was barely in the film which is such a waste.

The Gore intro piece was really damned good. It had the bones of a really dark film. I would have had it constantly cutting scenes to Gor killing another God along the way instead of just a montage in one scene.

The story would have been a good Grimdark movie. As to the kids, had Heimdall's son been a bit older and the one kid able to step up and fight alongside Thor it would have worked.

oh, and just remove the entire Jane Foster storyline. Make it a grim Thor movie.

j00t · Sep 13, 2022

i wonder how much of the issue was how historically controlling marvel is about their films? clearly taika wanted to make a very specific film but marvel wanted a villain and made him use gorr. i could obviously be way wrong about the whole thing, but hemsworth and portman both called the movie a romcom in space at several points during the press junkets. that idea is a goofy enough premise to be solely taika's idea but i'm sure marvel was like, "no you gotta have some superhero in there and this is the approved script so... whatever, make a romcom but work within this frame."

i mean, or maybe not and taika just flew too close to the sun and melted.

Chukzombi · Sep 13, 2022

this movie wasnt short. it was originally much longer but they had to take an axe to it because many scenes were unwatchable silly/stupid indulgences from Waititi. they knew what they had was bad, so they cut as much as they could and hoped nobody would notice.

Harshaw · Sep 13, 2022

j00t said:
i wonder how much of the issue was how historically controlling marvel is about their films? clearly taika wanted to make a very specific film but marvel wanted a villain and made him use gorr. i could obviously be way wrong about the whole thing, but hemsworth and portman both called the movie a romcom in space at several points during the press junkets. that idea is a goofy enough premise to be solely taika's idea but i'm sure marvel was like, "no you gotta have some superhero in there and this is the approved script so... whatever, make a romcom but work within this frame."

i mean, or maybe not and taika just flew too close to the sun and melted.

Taika had almost total control of the film. Which is why the backlash fucked him so much he said he won't come back for another Thor.

jayrebb · Sep 13, 2022

Harshaw said:
GnR got me sent home from school, then suspended because i had a back patch on my jean jacket with:

View attachment 433064
It took them 2 months to notice the titty. This was like 8th grade. Lol

The insert on the cassette tape album was very explicit as well.

I had to hide it and keep it on the low. I remember unfolding it from the cassette with a friend and seeing the tits.

rhinohelix · Sep 14, 2022

Chukzombi said:
GnR has always been awesome. even Chinese Democracy was baller. sure Axl is a bloated warthog now who can barely speak, but he was great in his time.

They had a few great years as hair metal died and then they drank their own kool aid and started hating each other; in 93 Grunge took the piss out of everyone playing $100 Million dollar stadium show tours and flying on individual private jets to shows and whatever else they were doing. AfD was amazing and what music needed at the time, then they became the thing they replaced. I liked Use Your Illusion 1 and 2 but it was the height of indulgent rock god complex and they needed to come down.

Chukzombi · Sep 14, 2022

rhinohelix said:
They had a few great years as hair metal died and then they drank their own kool aid and started hating each other; in 93 Grunge took the piss out of everyone playing $100 Million dollar stadium show tours and flying on individual private jets to shows and whatever else they were doing. AfD was amazing and what music needed at the time, then they became the thing they replaced. I liked Use Your Illusion 1 and 2 but it was the height of indulgent rock god complex and they needed to come down.

View attachment 433268

hell no! GnR was the top band in hard rock/metal til at least the mid 90s when people noticed, "hey, where is the next GnR album?" the Spaghetti Incident was decent, but it was a cover album. Axl self destructed. not that the band sucked or were passed their prime. Axl just turned into a little bitch, he shit all over his marriage, all over his band, cancelled shows because his voice turned bad, started bitchy feuds with other musicians and even his own label. if he had kept his voice and stopped being such a fucking headcase they would still be together rocking the music industry instead of whatever this pathetic cashgrab tour they've been doing.

rhinohelix · Sep 14, 2022

Sanrith Descartes said:
The Gore intro piece was really damned good. It had the bones of a really dark film. I would have had it constantly cutting scenes to Gor killing another God along the way instead of just a montage in one scene.

The story would have been a good Grimdark movie. As to the kids, had Heimdall's son been a bit older and the one kid able to step up and fight alongside Thor it would have worked.

oh, and just remove the entire Jane Foster storyline. Make it a grim Thor movie.

Just what the Thor Franchise needed: a Se7en installment. Gor was always dumb, and Cancer Jane was extra stupid sprinkled on top of it. Have *Taika* doing a Gor movie with Cancer Jane in 202x was the Nuclear Fusion of Stupid, though, I will give you that. I was scared they were going to bring in Russell Crowe to kill him off quick. I didn't realize they were going to make him the bad guy. Keeping Hemsworth around as Thor was the only smart thing they have done post-IW, although they have done shit with him.

rhinohelix · Sep 14, 2022

Chukzombi said:
hell no! GnR was the top band in hard rock/metal til at least the mid 90s when people noticed, "hey, where is the next GnR album?" the Spaghetti Incident was decent, but it was a cover album. Axl self destructed. not that the band sucked or were passed their prime. Axl just turned into a little bitch, he shit all over his marriage, all over his band, cancelled shows because his voice turned bad, started bitchy feuds with other musicians and even his own label. if he had kept his voice and stopped being such a fucking headcase they would still be together rocking the music industry instead of whatever this pathetic cashgrab tour they've been doing.

We don't disagree, I just put their irrelevance in 1993, you extend their decline into Mid 90s (95?). Spaghetti Incident came out in Nov 93. Actually, the big mistake in that post is mine, I push Grunge back into 93, when really Nirvana was hitting big Christmas 91/Jan 92 with "Smells like Teen Spirit" opening the flood gates. Once the Use Your Illusion tour was over, though, so was Axel; the stories started to come out on MTV about him getting therapy on the way to shows and the whole tenor around the band changed, with them blowing out 3 of 5 members etc.

Chukzombi · Sep 14, 2022

rhinohelix said:
We don't disagree, I just put their irrelevance in 1993, you extend their decline into Mid 90s (95?). Spaghetti Incident came out in Nov 93. Actually, the big mistake in that post is mine, I push Grunge back into 93, when really Nirvana was hitting big Christmas 91/Jan 92 with "Smells like Teen Spirit" opening the flood gates. Once the Use Your Illusion tour was over, though, so was Axel; the stories started to come out on MTV about him getting therapy on the way to shows and the whole tenor around the band changed, with them blowing out 3 of 5 members etc.

its only a difference of a few years, but lets also be real. the Seattle Sound/Grunge was pretty much done around 96/97. almost all metal was done by that time and it went back underground. i was still rocking to my favorite metal bands, but the golden age or whatever you want to call it was over and bands just started doing tours replaying their old hits while subtly not promoting their new stuff. of course there are exceptions like Ozzy and Metallica. anyways. GnR will always be a great band due to their first 5 albums. 7 years of hits is nothing to sneeze at.

Ambiturner · Sep 14, 2022

DickTrickle said:
Yeah, maybe because my expectations were pretty low after reading this thread, I didn't find it to be putrid, but it was entirely forgettable and didn't balance the differing tones at all. Really hated the idea of Thor-ifying all the kids at the end and Gorr felt like he was barely in the film which is such a waste.

Felt that way with The Guardians of The Galaxy. I liked them in the movie, and the battle at the beginning is pretty much how things would go with such a mismatch in power levels, but turning them all into the straight man to Thor's silliness is a pretty big missed opportunity

spronk · Sep 14, 2022

the original workprint of the movie was 4 hours long, there are extensive long Gorr sequences like he kills a goddess played by Lena Headley (Cersei), he kills the dwarf Etri played by Peter Dinklage, he kills the Grandmaster played by Jeff Goldblum, on and on. That shit woulda been amazing instead of the retarded cancer or kids powered up stuff. All the kids in the "we are all Thor" scenes were kids of the cast and crew so you know the second that got filmed there was no way it was ever getting cut, how the fuck would you explain to your kids "you were great but we had to remove you from the movie" lol

I doubt we'll ever see any of that sadly, I don't think any CGI was done and Waititi is not the kind of director to do directors cuts.

which is weird i thought Grandmaster and his brother the Collector were immortal and unkillable but i don't really know their lore at all

Mist · Sep 14, 2022

Sanrith Descartes said:
Make it a grim Thor movie.

They're not selling this stuff to the audience who thinks Joker and The Snyder Cut are good movies. Warhammer 40K: Thor Edition could certainly be awesome, but that's very clearly not Disney's market. The Dark World is largely considered one of the lowest tier MCU movies (though I thought it was fine) so the idea that they would make a darker movie is likely out of the question, even if it would be cool.

They're selling movies (and toys) to parents and kids who want Goofy 80s He-Man Romcom: Thor Edition.

Ambiturner · Sep 14, 2022

Mist said:
They're not selling this stuff to the audience who thinks Joker and The Snyder Cut are good movies. Warhammer 40K: Thor Edition could certainly be awesome, but that's very clearly not Disney's market. The Dark World is largely considered one of the lowest tier MCU movies (though I thought it was fine) so the idea that they would make a darker movie is likely out of the question, even if it would be cool.

They're selling movies (and toys) to parents and kids who want Goofy 80s He-Man Romcom: Thor Edition.

Agree for the most part. They saw grim Thor as disappointing, and funny Thor as beating expectations and said "Fuck it, turn the funny to 11"

I enjoyed it, but there were a good amount of jokes that just didn't land, like the stage 4 cancer joke. Not just because cancer is a subject that the vast majority of people don't find humor in, but how would someone with cancer for so long and just got done explaining Einstein-Rosen bridge's NOT know wtf stage 4 cancer is? Way too forced.

Didn't ruin it, but there was plenty of ways it could have been improved.

Still better than most phase 4 shit

Seananigans · Sep 14, 2022

Ambiturner said:
Agree for the most part. They saw grim Thor as disappointing, and funny Thor as beating expectations and said "Fuck it, turn the funny to 11"

I enjoyed it, but there were a good amount of jokes that just didn't land, like the stage 4 cancer joke. Not just because cancer is a subject that the vast majority of people don't find humor in, but how would someone with cancer for so long and just got done explaining Einstein-Rosen bridge's NOT know wtf stage 4 cancer is? Way too forced.

Didn't ruin it, but there was plenty of ways it could have been improved.

Still better than most ohase 4 shit

Well to be fair, Dark World was not real socialism. True Grim Thor has never been attempted.

TomServo · Sep 14, 2022

Ambiturner said:
Agree for the most part. They saw grim Thor as disappointing, and funny Thor as beating expectations and said "Fuck it, turn the funny to 11"

I enjoyed it, but there were a good amount of jokes that just didn't land, like the stage 4 cancer joke. Not just because cancer is a subject that the vast majority of people don't find humor in, but how would someone with cancer for so long and just got done explaining Einstein-Rosen bridge's NOT know wtf stage 4 cancer is? Way too forced.

Didn't ruin it, but there was plenty of ways it could have been improved.

Still better than most ohase 4 shit

Yeah I enjoyed it. The amount of hyperbole was like chuk posting en masse. You are a homo of the highest order to complain about guns and roses.

rhinohelix · Sep 14, 2022

Seananigans said:
Well to be fair, Dark World was not real socialism. True Grim Thor has never been attempted.

Laughing because of the people thinking this is a real argument. Crying because of the number of people thinking this is a real argument.

Foggy · Sep 16, 2022

Enjoyed it. It won’t make my favorites list, but I was mostly entertained throughout.

j00t · Sep 16, 2022

the bottom line is that taika's humor was just dialed up to 11 instead of someone telling him to pull it back a bit. the goats were like a gilbert godfrey joke in that he says something and it's mildly amusing, then says it again until it becomes really pretty irritating, then CONTINUES saying it until it comes back around to be hilarious. except it never came back around to being hilarious, just mildly amusing.

with the subject matter of thor trying to find his place in the galaxy, finding jane, jane having cancer and then ultimately dying, all while chasing a creature that is killing all of thor's friends and colleagues, the movie REALLY would have benefited from a much more serious tone. i'm not saying remove all the jokes, you need some joy and hope in there to even things out... and hemsworth has some really great comedic chops, but i would have had his character looking to re-establish his sense of humor... he's still recovering from being a drunk gamer recluse. physically they just brushed through that in a montage (which, i guess was fine?) but emotionally he still has work to do. THAT should have been the role that the guardians played in the movie. thor is just sullen and going from one battle to another while quill and company teach him something about having a good time. then maybe the get in a fight and leave him on some planet because his emotional issues are killing the vibe. he starts chasing gorr which leads him to meeting jane like normal, but she comments that he used to smile a lot more or whatever, and there you have it. thor starts making a concerted effort to actually ENJOY himself and have a good time. then you have some sort of reason for being so light hearted around a plot revolving around a character with stage 4 cancer.

tldr; make the plot about thor being a sadgod with a dadbod, and getting his godbod back while learning that life is what you make of it. wallowing in misery doesn't do anything for anyone. so make the best of whatever your situation is and live life. bad things will ALWAYS happen but we don't have to let them steal our joy. when someone dies, we mourn them by remembering all the happiness they brought to us.

there's a huge difference between THAT and just being completely irreverent and nonchalant about death and cancer and i think that's all we ended up getting from this movie.

Ambiturner · Sep 16, 2022

j00t said:
the bottom line is that taika's humor was just dialed up to 11 instead of someone telling him to pull it back a bit. the goats were like a gilbert godfrey joke in that he says something and it's mildly amusing, then says it again until it becomes really pretty irritating, then CONTINUES saying it until it comes back around to be hilarious. except it never came back around to being hilarious, just mildly amusing.

with the subject matter of thor trying to find his place in the galaxy, finding jane, jane having cancer and then ultimately dying, all while chasing a creature that is killing all of thor's friends and colleagues, the movie REALLY would have benefited from a much more serious tone. i'm not saying remove all the jokes, you need some joy and hope in there to even things out... and hemsworth has some really great comedic chops, but i would have had his character looking to re-establish his sense of humor... he's still recovering from being a drunk gamer recluse. physically they just brushed through that in a montage (which, i guess was fine?) but emotionally he still has work to do. THAT should have been the role that the guardians played in the movie. thor is just sullen and going from one battle to another while quill and company teach him something about having a good time. then maybe the get in a fight and leave him on some planet because his emotional issues are killing the vibe. he starts chasing gorr which leads him to meeting jane like normal, but she comments that he used to smile a lot more or whatever, and there you have it. thor starts making a concerted effort to actually ENJOY himself and have a good time. then you have some sort of reason for being so light hearted around a plot revolving around a character with stage 4 cancer.

tldr; make the plot about thor being a sadgod with a dadbod, and getting his godbod back while learning that life is what you make of it. wallowing in misery doesn't do anything for anyone. so make the best of whatever your situation is and live life. bad things will ALWAYS happen but we don't have to let them steal our joy. when someone dies, we mourn them by remembering all the happiness they brought to us.

there's a huge difference between THAT and just being completely irreverent and nonchalant about death and cancer and i think that's all we ended up getting from this movie.

See, it could have been worse.

They could have done something like this

Thor: Love and Thunder (2021)

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