True Detective

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Homsar

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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No one had an issue with VV and Farrell in the bar besides you
 
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Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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So the director said "hey, VV and Coolin, I need you both to sit in that booth...." and their job is done. The direct of photography will handle the camera angles, along with the writer, and the editor has ultimate power to cut away to the chick singing and back and forth on each of them individually as many times as he sees fit.

Man, I want to be a director. You're basically just doing nothing! And on IMBD you're the first person listed on cast and crew, and have your own personal assistant, and have like 9 assistant directors and all you really did was told actors where to stand so the cinematography and writer could direct the scene and the editor get final word on how he wanted it cut. Best job ever! But, sorry, that means I'm not going to praise Justin Lin's work then.

Sorry, Justin Lin didn't really do much of anything, so this is kind of a dumb statement:



I guess they are equals though, and are excellent at not having to actually do anything!


Oh, and so sayeth Chuk, so sayeth us all!
so sayeth me?
Cinematographer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A cinematographer or director of photography (sometimes shortened to DP or DOP) is the chief over the camera crews working on a film, television production or other live action piece and is responsible for achieving artistic and technical decisions related to the image. The study and practice of this field is referred to as cinematography. Some filmmakers say that the cinematographer is just the chief over the camera and lighting, and the Director of Photography is the chief over all the photography components of film, including framing, costumes, makeup, and lighting, as well as the assistant of the post producer for color correction and grading.

The cinematographer selects the film stock, lens, filters, etc., to realize the scene in accordance with the intentions of the director. Relations between the cinematographer and director vary; in some instances the director will allow the cinematographer complete independence; in others, the director allows little to none, even going so far as to specify exact camera placement and lens selection. Such a level of involvement is not common once the director and cinematographer have become comfortable with each other; the director will typically convey to the cinematographer what is wanted from a scene visually, and allow the cinematographer latitude in achieving that effect.

Several American cinematographers have become directors, including Barry Sonnenfeld, originally the Coen brothers' DP; Jan de Bont, cinematographer on films as Die Hard and Basic Instinct, directed Speed and Twister. Recently, Wally Pfister, cinematographer on Christopher Nolan's three Batman films, made his directorial debut with Transcendence.

Film director - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A film director is a person who directs the making of a film. Generally, a film director controls a film's artistic and dramatic aspects, and visualizes the script while guiding the technical crew and actors in the fulfillment of that vision.[1] The director has a key role in choosing the cast members, production design, and the creative aspects of filmmaking. [2] In some European countries, the director is viewed as the author of the film.

The film director gives direction to the cast and crew and creates an overall vision through which a film eventually becomes realized. Directors need to be able to mediate differences in creative visions and stay in the boundaries of the film's budget. There are many pathways to becoming a film director. Some film directors started as screenwriters, film editors or actors. Other film directors have attended a film school. Directors use different approaches. Some outline a general plotline and let the actors improvise dialogue, while others control every aspect, and demand that the actors and crew follow instructions precisely. Some directors also write their own screenplays or collaborate on screenplays with long-standing writing partners. Some directors edit or appear in their films, or compose the music score for their films.

Film editing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Film editing is part of the creative post-production process of filmmaking. The term film editing is derived from the traditional process of working with film, but now increasingly involves the use of digital technology.

The film editor works with the raw footage, selecting shots and combining them into sequences to create a finished motion picture. Film editing is described as an art or skill, the only art that is unique to cinema, separating filmmaking from other art forms that preceded it, although there are close parallels to the editing process in other art forms like poetry or novel writing. Film editing is often referred to as the "invisible art"[1] because when it is well-practiced, the viewer can become so engaged that he or she is not even aware of the editor's work. On its most fundamental level, film editing is the art, technique, and practice of assembling shots into a coherent sequence. The job of an editor isn't simply to mechanically put pieces of a film together, cut off film slates, or edit dialogue scenes. A film editor must creatively work with the layers of images, story, dialogue, music, pacing, as well as the actors' performances to effectively "re-imagine" and even rewrite the film to craft a cohesive whole. Editors usually play a dynamic role in the making of a film. Sometimes, auteur film directors edit their own films. Notable examples are Akira Kurosawa and the Coen brothers.

With the advent of digital editing, film editors and their assistants have become responsible for many areas of filmmaking that used to be the responsibility of others. For instance, in past years, picture editors dealt only with just that-picture. Sound, music, and (more recently) visual effects editors dealt with the practicalities of other aspects of the editing process, usually under the direction of the picture editor and director. However, digital systems have increasingly put these responsibilities on the picture editor. It is common, especially on lower budget films, for the assistant editors or even the editor to cut in music, mock up visual effects, and add sound effects or other sound replacements. These temporary elements are usually replaced with more refined final elements by the sound, music, and visual effects teams hired to complete the picture.

Film editing is an art that can be used in diverse ways. It can create sensually provocative montages; become a laboratory for experimental cinema; bring out the emotional truth in an actor's performance; create a point of view on otherwise obtuse events; guide the telling and pace of a story; create an illusion of danger where there is none; give emphasis to things that would not have otherwise been noted; and even create a vital subconscious emotional connection to the viewer, among many other possibilities. Editors can completely control how the audience feels emotionally throughout a film.
 

popsicledeath

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No one had an issue with VV and Farrell in the bar besides you
I don't have an issue! I was saying it was cool and the director did really good, but now people are saying the director doesn't do anything.

That single long scene from season 1 everyone was praising the director for.... wtf. Didn't people know that was just Pizzolatto's writing and thankfully an editor that didn't edit it up!?
 

Jozu

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Lol dude, you took shit waaay too far popsicle. No one is saying the director does nothing and deserves no credit. Thats obviously not the case, you're just being dumb and argumentive.

The Semyon and Velcoro bar scene wasnt a fucking masterpiece of cinema or some shit, it was simply a means to an end done with great skill and forethought. The dialogue wasnt the zenith of that sequence, the mood setting and atmosphere were. With that said, the scenes purpose was to frame just how fucked up Velcoro really is (when you give the audience lyrics about this being your least favorite life, its pretty clear whats being established).

No one is saying the director is useless, but in the context of that sequence, it was more about an overall mood and conveying how fucked up Velcoro really is, which probably spawned via Pizzolatto.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Without interviews from the people there or the script it is impossible to say exactly who is responsible for what. The lines defined by the roles arent always rigid and a well detailed script can take over the job of director/editor. Same with a very detailed oriented direcotr. And an aggressive cutting process can do whatever they want, see: reality tv shows where the participants get furious at how things are edited to tell a totally different story.
 

Szlia

Member
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I have never worked in the US where the labor unions in the movie making industry put very strict boundaries one who can do what, but I have worked on several professional film projects in different capacities (grip, electrician, boom operator, 2nd unit director, cameraman, editor, script doctor... even set builder once!).

If the director is not the writer, the scenario he will get can vary greatly in its level of detail when it comes to direction (that's the same with plays btw, some playwright give almost no information other thanso and so enters, some provide more stage directions than lines). So a scene like McAdams' character being kicked out of the casino can very well be as is on the page (Ext. Night. Outside the Casino. Single wide shot. Lady Cop gets shoved out of the casino by the casino's security. She drunkenly and profanely complains about it but reluctantly comply.) A certainty though is that, unless everything goes perfectly, modifications will happen during the shooting and further modifications will happen during the editing. Let's just say I have yet to see anything go perfectly ever.

With TV shows, where you know there will be a number of different directors that will shoot the episodes, on top of the scenarii of the episodes, there is also a film making bible (like there is one for the characters if different writers pen the episodes), so the directors are asked to make their own style disappear in favor of a global aesthetic that has been devised beforehand. This bible probably reinforce the role of the cinematographer, because, as far as I know, in a TV show, he is more likely to work on all the episodes. Still, while the cinematographer offers his technical and artistic expertise, it's the director who has the final say on everything (some directors are very specific on what they want and don't take no for an answer, some are just validating the choices made by the cinematographer).

Obviously, there is a task the director cannot delegate it's managing the actors in space and time (movements on the set, timing of events during the takes) and helping them deliver the performance he thinks is the best (there is no rule in this perilous exercise that can end in marriage or in trials, eternal friendships or visceral hatred). Here again, some are using actors like puppets, others are very much in a conversation with the actors, using their expertise and input. The job of the director is also finding which way works best with which actor (some use one size fit all though, some also don't care at all).

The director also oversees the whole editing process. Here again, the editor mainly provides his technical and artistic expertise. It's not the director who will choose on what frame a shot stops and on what frame another start for an action to be perceived as seamless and some montage sequences might be left to the skills of the editor, but, here again, it's the director who validates everything. It should be mentioned that during editing some heavy modifications can happen. Entire scenes can be dropped, their order changed, their mood altered through the use of post-production effects or music. Even more so if, at the time of shooting, you gave yourself options by shooting a lot of material (additional establishing shots, variations, alternate scenes, etc).

I suspect that in a TV show, the director has less leeway. On top of the bible and time and money constraints that are probably greater, there is also the show runner who looms above and might have a hands on rather than hands off approach to his job (same can be said for producers for films). Also it is likely some work is done with the actors before shooting too to help solidify the different characters

It is also important to note that there is no 'right' way to do these things. Great films and terrible films have been done using all sorts of different approaches (Famously, Wong Kar Wai started shootingIn the Mood for Lovewithout a scenario, he filmed scenes on a day to day basis, went to the editing room, did some reshoot and still no one, including himself, knew what the film was until the very last moment).


So... yeah... Justin Lin probably had a lot of work to do, but more in properly implementing the vision of others than in creating his own.
 

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
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Lol dude, you took shit waaay too far popsicle. No one is saying the director does nothing and deserves no credit. Thats obviously not the case, you're just being dumb and argumentive.
I'd appreciate if you didn't call me dumb and argumentative for simply trying to understand why someone said Justin Lin is a great director and I agreed and gave examples, and then multiple people said he shouldn't deserve credit for those examples, that it was other people, and then couldn't really say what we should credit Lin for doing.

The Semyon and Velcoro bar scene wasnt a fucking masterpiece of cinema or some shit, it was simply a means to an end done with great skill and forethought. The dialogue wasnt the zenith of that sequence, the mood setting and atmosphere were. With that said, the scenes purpose was to frame just how fucked up Velcoro really is (when you give the audience lyrics about this being your least favorite life, its pretty clear whats being established).

No one is saying the director is useless, but in the context of that sequence, it was more about an overall mood and conveying how fucked up Velcoro really is, which probably spawned via Pizzolatto.
Christ stop slamming this show like it sucks or something. It's one of the most talked about scenes and the dialogue from that scene some of the most quoted. I definitely agree, though, about the mood and framing how fucked up Velcro really is. I mean, yeah, there were some other scenes that went there, like the two assaults, but the camera cutting back and forth back and forth while two characters looked miserably disconnected and those 'lease favorite life' lyrics playing; man that's when it really hit home, I mean once I caught on to the lyrics after the 6th time they were repeated I was like holy shit Velcro really might be fucked up!

So, that mystery solved. I suppose getting a crane to film 3 seconds of McAnal being kicked out of the casino was Pizzolatto's direction to, like, help convey the overall mood and how fucked up she really is?

Thanks guys, it's really starting to make more sense than it did in the beginning. BTW what pills was CHiPs taking? Viagra? Because he's a gay?!
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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Jesus Christ dude, don't you have some work you should be doing right now?
 

Homsar

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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I'd appreciate if you didn't call me dumb and argumentative for simply trying to understand why someone said Justin Lin is a great director and I agreed and gave examples, and then multiple people said he shouldn't deserve credit for those examples, that it was other people, and then couldn't really say what we should credit Lin for doing.
Yeah we get that it, you werent being a sarcastic and loved that scene and how Mcadams threw down a plastic cup. Yes Pizzolatto deserves more credit to those scenes then Lin
Yeah. I really loved the 3 seconds shot from a crane to show McAdams getting kicked out of a casino throwing a plastic cup. It was awesome getting to see the action up close like that! Or cutting back and forth like 10 times from VV to the bar, back to VV, back to the bar, Coolin back to VV, to Coolin, the bar, before we finally just got a shot of them sitting across from eachother.... ooooh shit they were sitting at the same table the whole time! Daaaamn!
 

Homsar

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Was it planned to have Farrells epic father moment on fathers day? Find it hard to believe it was a coincidence
 

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
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Everything about the first episode seemed disjointed. Some of the scenes were just downright stupid. Cops don't get to show up at people's houses and beat up a kid's father with brass knuckles and not get thrown in jail for 15 years. I think that scene would've made a lot more sense if he had thrown on the hood like he did when he beat up the investigative reporter. Also, he drank an entire bottle of Johnnie Walker Blue at the bar, then woke up and drove to the murder scene like he was completely sober, same with Rachel McAdam's character. I know it was only the first episode, but I in no way would call it good television, and I'm not alone.
True Detective season 2 leads HBO's most disappointing lineup ever - Vox
 

Homsar

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Holy fuck dont link anything from Vox, and that scene was showing how much of a trainwreck Velcoro is. He also was out of county I think and works for pretty much the most corrupt department in california and sweep shit under the rug.


And do you think cops arent getting extremely wasted and fucked up and then driving. Im assuming you didnt realize the sun was comming up either when Farrell showed up
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etchazz

Trakanon Raider
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Holy fuck dont link anything from Vox, and that scene was showing how much of a trainwreck Velcoro is. He also was out of county I think and works for pretty much the most corrupt department in california and sweep shit under the rug.


And do you think cops arent getting extremely wasted and fucked up and then driving. Im assuming you didnt realize the sun was comming up either when Farrell showed up
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I'm sorry I pissed in your cheerios, Homsar, but the episode was shit TV.
 

Homsar

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Jimmies russled, I just dont know how sheltered someone has to be to think this stuff isnt happening. Ive seen so many people I know drink 151 ect blackout or pass out, wake up at 4 a.m. and hop on the freeway and drive to base.

Youre bitching about Farrell drinking at what could possibly be 9 PM and cant believe a corrupt county would call him to a crime scene at 5 AM. This is the stretching everyone doing to hate the episode, on top of that, people are linking articles to Vox because they see it pop up on some feed on yahoo or who knows.


Klitchs character was rushed and not given time while Mcadams character was not interesting unless you care about her anal habits. Those are legit complaints, the stuff you mentioned arent