True Detective

popsicledeath

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i like you too, Pops, although i think you go too far sometimes. this show isnt high art, at least not this season. its just an inflated 3 part mystery on a regular crime procedural show. is not worth getting so worked up over
Only sometimes? See, you're too nice!

I wouldn't say season 1 was high art, but that's not really a term I'd ever use, but no point in stressing semantics. I think season 1 was of much higher quality, so attracted a different viewership than season 2 which is more 'that was cool' entertainment. When season 3 incorporates the best of both seasons, and I believe it will, it's going to be epic. Not a lot of shows have divided their viewership the way TD has. And it's only a division because it's gaining new fans as it alienates old fans. The best part of season 3 will be the collision of season 1 vs 2 fans at each others throats trying to argue that season 3 is only great because it's more like the season they prefer. It'll be a bloodbath, and meanwhile the actual show will probably be really good for season 3 unless Nic and HBO really try hard to undermine it.
 

Chukzombi

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thats a good point. the other show that does this is american horror story. season 1 started terribly, the haunted house stuff with shock value scene after shock value scene thrown in to juice things up didnt impress me. then they developed the characters and the last half of the seaosn turned it around some. season 2 asylum i really enjoyed it from start to finish. they still threw in shock value scenes repeatedly, but they were more confident in the story they were building. it all ended quite well even if they went way far into WTF territory. season 3 about the witches was just bad. for me when they stopped what they were doing so stevie knicks could play her song, they might as well have had fonzie come out in his jet skis and jump over her too. i stopped watching then and didnt even bother with season 4.

i think this show has had its season 3 a bit early and hopefully now that they get it the fuck over with, they can retool and figure out a cohesive story for a good season 3 that actually moves the plot along from week to week instead of just crawling for half the season
 

Merrith

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Jesus fucking christ. Astro and popsicle's awkward bromance makes any of VV's awkward dialogue look like the best of Rustin Cohle.
 

Chanur

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I'm watching the Fright Night remake. I've got to say Colin was great in this. All swagger and confidence with out over doing it.
 

Merrith

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oh come on merrith, you can join in the group hug
I think there are definitely some valid complaints about this season (I have a few myself), but it's nowhere near as bad as you've made it out to be.

Again, for reference, no one is putting it anywhere close to S1 either. Literally a tier or two down not even sniffing that level. But it's not horrible by any stretch.
 

Jozu

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I'm watching the Fright Night remake. I've got to say Colin was great in this. All swagger and confidence with out over doing it.
Yea i said that earlier in the thread. I thought he was great in that movie.
 

popsicledeath

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I think there are definitely some valid complaints about this season (I have a few myself), but it's nowhere near as bad as you've made it out to be.

Again, for reference, no one is putting it anywhere close to S1 either. Literally a tier or two down not even sniffing that level. But it's not horrible by any stretch.

A tier or two down from season 1? How many tiers? Really, where would you rank season two of True Detective? We've got people saying it's better than anything else on TV right now. What about compared to fall shows? What about historically?

And the way some people defend this season makes me think they don't consider it a tier or two below season 1. Especially when they defend season 2 by criticizing the first (ironically after freaking the fuck out on anyone doing the opposite in criticizing season 2 by comparing/defending the first). I don't recall if any dumb fuck has said season 2 is better yet, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I mean, here are some of the shows biggest supporters saying things early on that are fucking retarded now that we have more content to judge:

This Nic Pizzolatto has some secret sauce that no other writer has. No one writes shit this good for TV.
which got this response:

The biggest thing he has going is complete final say on production and script. Goes along way.
Yeah, Nic and his final say secret sauce is like blue balls in his best-worst self. I think anyone with any level of objectivity can admit the biggest mistake with this season is that Nic's arrogance led him to think he could go it alone and it would be pure gold simply because he's just that great. And I don't think a single person, even detractors, would say no one else is writing anything this good for television at this point.


Early issues in the show that people too exception to:

You don't think almost killing a guy with a pair of brass knuckles and nothing at all happens to him is not a legit complaint? How fucking stupid are you?
were dismissed by saying things like:

You're comments have been pretty retarded but how do you know nothing will happen? It's been a few hours its not fucking magic.
And it's been how many months in the show? Turns out, the scene was there for pure shock value and started a tangent that would have been pretty cool as sub-story, but led to nothing.

And how many scenes have we subsequently gotten that were exactly like that? Velcro gets shot, turns out to be a [poorly executed] shock-value crock of shit that really leads nowhere. Actual story was ignored/diverted by that crock of shit shootout with the Mexes. The car involved in the murder gets blown up and a suspect gets chased, and it's just crock-of-shit action that leads the story nowhere. They could have been working the actual case and evidence, but instead of even discussing it they go illegally undercover to the most boring orgy ever that only seemed to exist for the purpose of shock value and more random coincidences:

People early complained about the awful random coincidences and why these true detective weren't picking up on anything at all and working the case, and the defenders of the show did so with more bullshit excuses (it's only the second episode, it's only halfway done, it's only episode 7!), and in the end a major flaw of the show has been that things are introduced, ignored, then brought back into the show dues ex machina style.... when they could have just worked the fucking case all along, which would have probably been a more interesting and cohesive story than the ton of pointless back-story we got masquerading as character development:

People complained about the early scenes that were just showing seemingly pointless back-story for characters that really didn't even show much character depth or history, and of course the defenders of the show screamed about it, just wait, it's building character, but did it really? For fuck sake we never even got anything on how/why Paul has his burns until Taylor did an interview after his character died.

Pretty much all the early complaints were not only valid at the time, but re-exposed again and again as huge flaws in the show. And while some things have improved (hey, we at least have them talking about things they should have been acting on all along!), those early flaws were still a microcosm of the overall quality of the show. The only thing that has changed is a LOT of people who were hopeful early on have gone pretty silent, and there is a small group of people that hilariously went all-in supporting this show right from the start who have had no other option than sticking to that defense now matter how much absurdity and ignorance it requires.
 
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Chukzombi

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A tier or two down from season 1? How many tiers? Really, where would you rank season two of True Detective? We've got people saying it's better than anything else on TV right now. What about compared to fall shows? What about historically?

And the way some people defend this season makes me think they don't consider it a tier or two below season 1. Especially when they defend season 2 by criticizing the first (ironically after freaking the fuck out on anyone doing the opposite in criticizing season 2 by comparing/defending the first). I don't recall if any dumb fuck has said season 2 is better yet, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I mean, here are some of the shows biggest supporters saying things early on that are fucking retarded now that we have more content to judge:



which got this response:



Yeah, Nic and his final say secret sauce is like blue balls in his best-worst self. I think anyone with any level of objectivity can admit the biggest mistake with this season is that Nic's arrogance led him to think he could go it alone and it would be pure gold simply because he's just that great. And I don't think a single person, even detractors, would say no one else is writing anything this good for television at this point.


Early issues in the show that people too exception to:



were dismissed by saying things like:



And it's been how many months in the show? Turns out, the scene was there for pure shock value and started a tangent that would have been pretty cool as sub-story, but led to nothing.

And how many scenes have we subsequently gotten that were exactly like that? Velcro gets shot, turns out to be a [poorly executed] shock-value crock of shit that really leads nowhere. Actual story was ignored/diverted by that crock of shit shootout with the Mexes. The car involved in the murder gets blown up and a suspect gets chased, and it's just crock-of-shit action that leads the story nowhere. They could have been working the actual case and evidence, but instead of even discussing it they go illegally undercover to the most boring orgy ever that only seemed to exist for the purpose of shock value and more random coincidences:

People early complained about the awful random coincidences and why these true detective weren't picking up on anything at all and working the case, and the defenders of the show did so with more bullshit excuses (it's only the second episode, it's only halfway done, it's only episode 7!), and in the end a major flaw of the show has been that things are introduced, ignored, then brought back into the show dues ex machina style.... when they could have just worked the fucking case all along, which would have probably been a more interesting and cohesive story than the ton of pointless back-story we got masquerading as character development:

People complained about the early scenes that were just showing seemingly pointless back-story for characters that really didn't even show much character depth or history, and of course the defenders of the show screamed about it, just wait, it's building character, but did it really? For fuck sake we never even got anything on how/why Paul has his burns until Taylor did an interview after his character died.

Pretty much all the early complaints were not only valid at the time, but re-exposed again and again as huge flaws in the show. And while some things have improved (hey, we at least have them talking about things they should have been acting on all along!), those early flaws were still a microcosm of the overall quality of the show. The only thing that has changed is a LOT of people who were hopeful early on have gone pretty silent, and there is a small group of people that hilariously went all-in supporting this show right from the start who have had no other option than sticking to that defense now matter how much absurdity and ignorance it requires.
not everything has to tie in and be completely explained, but if they do bring something up then they should follow through with it a little bit. they did the same stuff last season and we did bring up all the loose ends that were never explained by the end, but it was so well acted it overshadowed all its flaws.

i still would like to know who ray blew to get away scot free for brutally beating some innocent dude with brass knuckles or how a in-depth story on vinci corruption gets completely squashed because the reporter was beat up. when shit like that happens in real life, the reporter will still run the story but they go into hiding.
 

Gilgamel

A Man Chooses....
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I think there are definitely some valid complaints about this season (I have a few myself), but it's nowhere near as bad as you've made it out to be.

Again, for reference, no one is putting it anywhere close to S1 either. Literally a tier or two down not even sniffing that level. But it's not horrible by any stretch.
Huge portions of this season are worse than Low Winter Sun. Some of it is pretty horrible.

They took four actors I liked and I feel like only one of them isn't shitty in this series. Most of that is writing, and the plot itself is complete garbage.
 
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Merrith

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Huge portions of this season are worse than Low Winter Sun. Some of it is pretty horrible.

They took four actors I liked and I feel like only one of them isn't shitty in this series. Most of that is writing, and the plot itself is complete garbage.
I thought Kitsch did pretty well with his role, even if he was relegated too often to just "warrior bad ass" of the group. While quite a bit of the VV dialogue has been tough to watch (still no idea why the fuck some of his shit gets so much screen time), I don't get the hate on him for the role in general. I thought he's been decent, the writing has just been completely over the top a lot for him (not that it hasn't for some of the others, just more so for him). Velcoro is the best thing about the show. Mcadams honestly is the only one that has been a complete disappointment for me. Just haven't bought in really to any of her character.
 
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popsicledeath

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They're all professional actors who have some level of credibility who are never going to completely suck at everything. All 4 mains have had good scenes, bad scenes, scenes they probably could have done a lot better with and scenes they'd have needed a rewrites for anyone to pull off. I think McAdams definitely had the biggest uphill battle and hasn't really shined much, but she's been pretty consistently just a prop, basically. Vaughn and what's-his-gay-cop-name have had some good scenes, but also some scenes that they both seemed above their ability levels. Vaughn I'd argue has been involved in more good scenes that felt natural and honest, but also some of the most laughable.

Farrell has definitely been the most consistent, but he's been consistently the one that most needs a foil to balance him out and he hasn't gotten that. Instead, he got a lot of the 'joke' lines and I just don't see that as being his thing. I mean, he's swallowed more punchlines like he was hoping nobody had to hear them. They really needed him as the downer and Vaughn as the upper instead of everyone trying to be the downer. They need to do a recut of this season with Hart poking his head into Farrell scenes saying 'Why that sounds miserable, Velcro' and 'Let's make the car a place of silent reflection' to cut the awkward depressive lack of chemistry in most scenes.

But again, these are professional actors who've all done decent things and I think had the potential to rock this. The writing and production felt rushed and unpolished from the beginning. I think it shows season 1 was a really long development process and succeeded because people bought in a as a team, whereas it just feels like season 2 Nic wanted all the glory, shut everyone out, had a short turn around period and everyone showed up hoping stardom has be pre-fabricated for them when it's never quite that easy. And why should we think season 3 won't be just as rushed and inconsistent if Nic Pizza&Latte shuts out the criticism and forges forward alone singular in all his glory and vision.

I think the smartest thing right now is for Nic and HBO to be assembling a team of writers, find a director that Nic can collaborate with or a team that can work together from the beginning as a team, a team of actors who are going to come in early and really pour themselves into the season. I read some interview saying the actors were often not even seeing their scripts for scenes until the day before a shoot, and sometimes wouldn't ever see their counterparts roles as they were going into scenes, which some amateurs think will make things more 'natural' and 'surprising' to the actors, but professional actors usually want to study their role, not just wing it and look somewhat confused in scenes by what the other character is babbling on about. All in all, though, I think Nic proved he needs help, which only comes as a surprise to the young 'autere' first realizing even being considered a singular brilliance requires a lot of help, teamwork and support.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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All 4 of these actors are doing amazing, really. It's just poorly written. With what they have been given? A+ performances all around. Well VV might get like a B, or a B- for some of those scenes dialogue or not.
 
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calhoonjugganaut

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I'm just not really feeling this new season at all. It has kept me watching it and I will watch the finale and it'll probably be good TV but this season just had too many over the top scenes. Not that the first season wasn't over the top, it just had a much better pairing of drama and holy fucking shit!
 
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Droigan

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They should have just called True Detective what it was, a mini series, and not called this "season 2".

If Band of Brothers returned, with an all new cast, but as a war drama. It would not be "season 2" It would be "Band of Brothers 2" the sequel of a mini series. It finished. Not sure about others here, but for me, a second season to something and a sequel to something, mean different things. The expectations I have vary. For a sequel to a type of movie I can fully get on board with new cast, storyline and nothing really resembling with the first other than the "theme" tied to the brand name. For a "Season 2" tied to shows, I sort of expect tie ins with season 1, returning characters, plots, etc.

This is not a show that should be labeled with "seasons", and I think it has been judged more harshly now as a new season rather than if they just marketed it as True Detective 2. As others have stated. On its own, it is not bad, but compared to season 1, it is not even close.
 

Oatlord_sl

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Never seen an internet forum thread with so many words that I have to just scroll past. The one dude above really loves his keyboard.

Anyway, I thought this season was entertaining. Had issues, but I'll still look forward to season three.