Waco pt2? Standoff in Nevada over cattle on BLM land

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Royal

Royal

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Arative_sl said:
Seems the ancestral rights that Bundy was claiming to justify him using the federal lands, was probably a lie
I-Team: Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny - 8 News NOW
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He claims his ancestral rights were established in 1877, butNevada's state constitutionwas ratified in 1864 and within it:

Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States; ..."
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His ancestors could have obtained some land there under the Homestead Act, but not of the amount of acreage he's trying to lay claim to, nothing near it. And there would be documentation of that.
 
meStevo

meStevo

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I guess in one of his daily press conferences this week he wondered out loud if negros (his word) weren't better off in the family atmosphere of slavery vs the current climate of government assistance that actually offers them less freedom and that they abort their children and spend time in jail because they don't know how to pick cotton.

His mob of crazies is down to ~50 or so.
 
spronk

spronk

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haha
Cliven Bundy on blacks

Al Bundy_sl said:
?I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,? he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, ?and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids ? and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch ? they didn?t have nothing to do. They didn?t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn?t have nothing for their young girls to do.

?And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?? he asked. ?They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I?ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn?t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.?
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Lleauaric

Lleauaric

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And cue all the right wingnuts as they

rrr_img_65407.jpg
 
iannis

iannis

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To be completely fair, that is a valid question.

The answer is obvious, you know. Well, they're not being beaten, malnourished, traded as property, and treated as livestock -- so you know, that part is better. But once you move past that (if you move past that) and start considering how to unfuck the utter fucking that slavery wreaked on their subsociety, those sorts of thoughts and questions start to become a little bit more nane. As starting points I think they're fair. As ending points I think they're kinda lazy.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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Noam Chomsky made a similar comment about slavery and wage slavery, that without condoning slavery there was an arquement the south had that wasn't ever really retorted by the north. As capitalists atleast slave owners had an vested interest in maintaining their property however under the initial conditions of the industrial revolution the owners who rented labor via a wage had no such interest, and didn't care about workers long term health or conditions, it was much easier just to rent somebody else's labor.
 
Sentagur

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Wow , what an utterly moronic thing to say, and i don't care if Chomsky said/meant it or if you butchered some of his comments to phrase it this way.
That's like saying : at least slaves never had to worry about making mortgage payments!
Do you read your own comments?

fanaskin_sl said:
Noam Chomsky made a similar comment about slavery and wage slavery, that without condoning slavery there was an arquement the south had that wasn't ever really retorted by the north. As capitalists atleast slave owners had an vested interest in maintaining their property however under the initial conditions of the industrial revolution the owners who rented labor via a wage had no such interest, and didn't care about workers long term health or conditions, it was much easier just to rent somebody else's labor.
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Eomer

Eomer

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Sentagur_sl said:
Wow , what an utterly moronic thing to say, and i don't care if Chomsky said/meant it or if you butchered some of his comments to phrase it this way.
That's like saying : at least slaves never had to worry about making mortgage payments!
Do you read your own comments?
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Actually there's a fair amount of logic in that kind of an argument. Chomsky isn't saying that actual slavery isn't a bad thing, or excusable. He's saying that wage slavery can be as bad, or close to it anyways. And honestly, there was some pretty awful shit going on during the industrial revolution, even if it wasn't outright slavery.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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Sentagur_sl said:
Wow , what an utterly moronic thing to say, and i don't care if Chomsky said/meant it or if you butchered some of his comments to phrase it this way.
That's like saying : at least slaves never had to worry about making mortgage payments!
Do you read your own comments?
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I can see how you can make that connection if it was an attempt to condone slavery. It's not a critique for the condoning of slavery though, although that was what the original people making the point were attempting to do. it's a critique of the system that replaced it for those individuals. Which without constraint like the conditions of the early industrial revolution can be awful in its own right.
 
Ambiturner

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Eomer_sl said:
Actually there's a fair amount of logic in that kind of an argument. Chomsky isn't saying that actual slavery isn't a bad thing, or excusable. He's saying that wage slavery can be as bad, or close to it anyways. And honestly, there was some pretty awful shit going on during the industrial revolution, even if it wasn't outright slavery.
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Seriously, just like how the Holocaust wasn't so bad because Berny Madoff.
 
ZyyzYzzy

ZyyzYzzy

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I hate Chomsky, being indebted to corporations is vastly different than being owned by another human being.
 
Tuco

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Better to be a free man with the opportunity for crime, jail and poverty than to be a slave with no opportunity. Pretending that a group of people who were recently enslaved would prefer to be enslaved is moronic.
 
N

Numbers_sl

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Tuco_sl said:
Being indebted to another human being is vastly different than being owned by another human being.
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How's that? What is the fundamental difference between perpetual debt and slavery? The U.S. Supreme Court used logic and reason to determine corporations are indeed people legally.
 
dak

dak

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Being indebted to another human being is vastly different than being owned by another human being.
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In both instances force can be used to ensure compliance.

Whether or not you think you're a slave, if you refuse to pay your taxes or a legal obligation long enough, your quality of life is greatly reduced once caught. They will take your house, ruin your reputation and livelihood, throw you in prison, they may even take your kids and adopt them out in some cases.

You can argue that it was your "choice" not to pay the taxes or the legal obligation, but in many cases it isn't a choice. In many cases, it is a system designed to screw people into becoming criminals and debt slaves. If you get sick and lose your job, that's just as out of your control as the color of your skin.

I'm not saying the system is wrong though, I just people should acknowledge that they are still slaves....maybe it will make them strive a bit harder for change.
 
Kreugen

Kreugen

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As Paul Ryan slowly backs away into the bushes, "unavailable for comment." Conservative Hero, indeed. Congratulations, you now have your "my son would look like Trayvon" moment.

A funny thing about slavery - it would no doubt cost more to keep a slave today than it would to pay someone to do the same work. Slavery no longer makes any economic sense.

(no, I didn't research that claim. I bet someone has and I'll look for it later.)
 
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