Waco pt2? Standoff in Nevada over cattle on BLM land

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iannis

iannis

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Kreugen_sl said:
As Paul Ryan slowly backs away into the bushes. Conservative Hero, indeed.

A funny thing about slavery - it would no doubt cost more to keep a slave today than it would to pay someone to do the same work. Slavery no longer makes any economic sense.

(no, I didn't research that claim. I bet someone has and I'll look for it later.)
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Nah, you're basically right IF you assume a few things about the nature of what "keeping a slave" means.

It's way cheaper to use mexicans. WAY cheaper. I mean it's ridiculous how much cheaper it is. And you can abuse them -almost- as much. And you don't have to go get them. They come to YOU.

What does anyone think that NAFTA was really about? Do people think Bush the 2nd was just being a RINO turncoat when he was talking about "Guest Workers"?
 
Ambiturner

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Lost in the retarded debate on if being poor is worse than being a slave is the fact that over 70% of blacks aren't poor.
 
Royal

Royal

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Numbers_sl said:
What is the fundamental difference between perpetual debt and slavery?
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Sounds like a valid argument for a society making it more difficult for those capable of capturing others with perpetual debt from doing so to me.
 
Sentagur

Sentagur

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I am sorry i just can not make that leap of logic.
A thing like slavery can not be deconstructed into separate aspects so each aspect can be judged on their own.
The whole concept is so terrible that no matter how one thing might be construed as a positive to totality of slavery drags it all down into the shitter.

Eomer_sl said:
Actually there's a fair amount of logic in that kind of an argument. Chomsky isn't saying that actual slavery isn't a bad thing, or excusable. He's saying that wage slavery can be as bad, or close to it anyways. And honestly, there was some pretty awful shit going on during the industrial revolution, even if it wasn't outright slavery.
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iannis

iannis

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Sentagur_sl said:
I am sorry i just can not make that leap of logic.
A thing like slavery can not be deconstructed into separate aspects so each aspect can be judged on their own.
The whole concept is so terrible that no matter how one thing might be construed as a positive to totality of slavery drags it all down into the shitter.
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Why not? You're imposing a special case and dealing in an absolute. That's a moral judgement. Can you say that, while all of slavery is bad, some forms of slavery are less bad than other forms.

It's not that I disagree with you. But I agree because I am willing to deconstruct it into aspects, and while there are hypotheticals which can outweigh the onus of deprivation of personal liberty (which is one of the deconstructed aspects, not the totality) there have been no practical ones that I'm aware of. I'm not a slavery expert.

I just think it's curious that someone would be unwilling to allow their mind to consider it in that fashion, is all. I suppose because it does allow for the possibility of righteous slavery, no matter how extreme the situation has to become in order for that possibility to exist. For me it's the possibility of righteous slavery that is terrifying, and a real motive to avoid the cases in which such a thing COULD exist.

And it could exist. Not in our lifetimes, thank god, but it honestly could exist. A lot of the ideas in Brave New World are even more relevant than when he wrote them. I'm not talking about the dystopia/soma bits. He outlined a practical (more practical than Orwell, I think) instance of righteous slavery. Think about the Epsilons.
 
Ambiturner

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dak_sl said:
http://www.demos.org/sites/default/f...Debt_Demos.pdf

They are influenced more negatively by carrying debt though when compared to whites and hispanics.

Also, they have on average around half the assets of a white.
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On average, they aren't as wealthy as whites. That's obvious and nobody's arguing with that. The fact is a wide majority of them are doing well. Comparing their conditions today to slavery is not only ridiculous, but only applicable to less than a third of the population.
 
khalid

khalid

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Rofl, slavery the same as 'wage slavery'? Can someone that you owe money to rape you? Take your child and sell it? Torture you? Beat you until you are dead?

NEVER go full Dumar.
 
Sentagur

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It is like asking which aspects of slavery are positive?
This throws the same kind of logic error in my brain like trying to divide by 0.
I am sure i could twist my internal logic until its so convoluted to start making sense but what is the point.

Yes if i my choices were slavery or Wage slavery it is no contest, i would go with the latter and i am not sure there is anyone who would prefer the former.
 
drtyrm

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I know he won't do the work so can someone find this quote Fanaskin is referencing? I tried googling but can't find anything where he references Southern slavery.

Noam Chomsky made a similar comment about slavery and wage slavery, that without condoning slavery there was an arquement the south had that wasn't ever really retorted by the north.
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meStevo

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lol, Cliven Bundy's brother said he was taken out of context. It's a 2 paragraph quote and there's video of it.
 
ZyyzYzzy

ZyyzYzzy

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dak_sl said:
In both instances force can be used to ensure compliance.

Whether or not you think you're a slave, if you refuse to pay your taxes or a legal obligation long enough, your quality of life is greatly reduced once caught. They will take your house, ruin your reputation and livelihood, throw you in prison, they may even take your kids and adopt them out in some cases.

You can argue that it was your "choice" not to pay the taxes or the legal obligation, but in many cases it isn't a choice. In many cases, it is a system designed to screw people into becoming criminals and debt slaves. If you get sick and lose your job, that's just as out of your control as the color of your skin.

I'm not saying the system is wrong though, I just people should acknowledge that they are still slaves....maybe it will make them strive a bit harder for change.
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You argument completely fails to reconcile that being a piece of property of another human is different than paying into a society you are apart of
 
iannis

iannis

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rrr_img_65415.jpg
 
Royal

Royal

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So essentially his position is that the situation of the average, modern day African-American would have been markedly improved, or would have at least been no worse, if they had just kept on letting their betters make any and all of their decisions for them.

This from the same guy that summoned the aid of every gun toting, separatist militia crackpot within 500 miles to come to his aid in fending off the Federal Government from doing the exact same thing concerning merely his use of land that he doesn't even own.

Brilliant ...
 
Tuco

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Numbers_sl said:
How's that? What is the fundamental difference between perpetual debt and slavery? The U.S. Supreme Court used logic and reason to determine corporations are indeed people legally.
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Under slavery I do what my master wishes as long as it'd legal for him to force me to do it.

Under perpetual debt (Ex: Where I owe more on my house than it's worth and student loans I have no way to pay off) I can do whatever I wish as long as it's legal and I pay interest on my debt.

You can't just take freedom-restraining aspects of owing money, point out comparisons of that system to slavery and say they're the same thing. If you think you can, please look to the current freedoms enjoyed by someone with a mortgage and the current freedoms enjoyed by one of the thousands of sex slaves that exist currently, or any slave in history if you want to start cherry picking.
 
fanaskin

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people can get trapped in situations they can't extricate themselves from. especially if they have no marketable skills.
 
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