War with Syria

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!

Jozu

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
6,986
6,295
Biased is clearly at play here.

For fucks sake, we threatened REAL military intervention and people reacted. Russia basically was like "lol dont mind my little friend here, he is clearly stressed out and would like nothing more than to please you by letting ME hold his most dangerous weapons!".

Russia might look cool to some idiots, but all they did was bail Syria out of getting striked with surgical precision, and with total impunity. Who the fuck is going to do something about us firing a cruise missile into Syria? Thats right, no one.
 

fanaskin

Well known agitator
<Silver Donator>
56,009
138,749
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...y-action-syria

While stressing that Washington's primary goal remained "limited and proportional" attacks to degrade Syria's chemical weapons capabilities and deter their future use, the president hinted at a long-term mission that may ultimately bring about a change of regime.

"It also fits into a broader strategy that can bring about over time the kind of strengthening of the opposition and the diplomatic, economic and political pressure required - so that ultimately we have a transition that can bring peace and stability, not only to Syria but to the region," Obama told senior members of Congress at a White House meeting earlier on Tuesday.
 
112
0
Putin's the one who got bailed out here. The US was about to demonstrate to the world that they could take a giant shit in Putin's backyard and there wasn't a damn thing he could do about it. He's been stonewalling for over a year on the issue of Syria's chemical weapons, now he can't agree to the deal fast enough.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
29,854
83,147
I've been following this story since it got going. I don't need to validate myself to you by running out and piecing together all of the retarded shit that Obama and Kerry have said.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
47,942
82,660
Gopher, I really don't think you're paying attention to the geopolitics here. The chemical weapons is a red herring.
 

Famm

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
11,041
794
There's a bunch of people out there who are quick to jump up and down about hypocrisy and how we ignored all these other instances of chemical weapons or human rights violations. Yet when you take the step to "ok, then what could be some underlying reasons why Syria is so important now, since chemical weapons are obviously an excuse" they act like you're a truther birther conspiracy theorist who is out of touch with reality. As if governments haven't always acted with subterfuge and propaganda.
 

BoldW

Molten Core Raider
2,081
25
The president gets what he wanted in the first place without a single shot fired by the US, and he looks like an idiot? Is this Fox News?
Because Obama looks like a fool to the rest of the world, and lost a lot of the bargaining power of our military. He drew a red line, announced strikes, then backed off by handing the decision over to Congress. The Putin/Assad deal made him go to Congress and "postpone" the vote, which he didn't have the votes for anyway, and now he has to deal with Putin at the UN when everyone knows Congress won't vote for the strikes (hence the whole we'll do it anyway, maybe, line) - we've got no real bargaining chip, or certainly not as big of one. Him talking about the children being gassed but then not doing it also doesn't make him look so hot, and on and on

Basically, nothing does. Reading some foreign papers/sites, they talk about his speech last night as being full of contradictions and rhetoric, not giving any semblance of a plan about what he will do if the whole chemical weapons deal is a big smoke and mirrors show and nothing concrete comes out of it in the coming weeks. He saved himself some face here at home because he doesn't have to go worry about the congressional vote, but out there, it doesn't make him look good. But hey, who cares about foreign relations? We've got Obamacare! (yeah, I know - couldn't resist).

To sum up:
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...gic-96595.html
While the president's address focused mostly on preventing Syria from using chemical weapons and keeping those weapons from falling into the wrong hands, it is clear that the proposed military action does not promise either. Its presumed effectiveness, moreover, rests on the assumption that the mere threat of escalation will deter Assad in the future. And yet the president promised only limited action, and all but promised not to act without the consent of Congress.The Russian proposal cuts both ways for the president. On the one hand, it enhances his case with Congress, where arguably the credible threat of using force is the best leverage to get a favorable deal. On the other hand, it promises, through diplomacy, to neutralize Assad's chemical weapons, exposing the fact that the proposed military action does not do the same.
Which is why I don't think this will be a standard "play with the UN then ignore" ME dictator-style ploy. Assad's not a typical ME style dictator. Sure, Russia will take some jabs at Obama during the process, and it will take longer than a few weeks (probably just to see if Obama does anything, or prove that he wont), but I think it'll happen. We'll find out.
 

fanaskin

Well known agitator
<Silver Donator>
56,009
138,749
This is why syrians hate the "rebels" for the most part. Apparently the rebels chained this girl up and forced her to watch the execution of her parents.

rrr_img_43267.jpg


NSFW


Syrian village is 'liberated' by rebels... who then forced Christians to convert to Islam
 

fanaskin

Well known agitator
<Silver Donator>
56,009
138,749
Italian Journalist Freed After 5 Months in Captivity: Syria Rebels 'Treated Me Like an Animal, Only Interested in Profiting From the Revolution'

Domenico Quirico was freed on Sunday, after being held hostage for five months along with Belgian teacher Pierre Piccinin da Prata.

In the pages of his newspaper, La Stampa, the 62-year-old described being subjected to two mock executions.

He said his captors were "mixed-up" men consumed by the pursuit of money.

Mr Quirico entered Syria from Lebanon on 6 April. He disappeared four days later near the city of Qusair - probably betrayed, Mr Quirico said, by members of the Free Syrian Army (FSA).

Over following months he and Mr da Prata were passed from one armed group to another.

The captives endured long, dangerous journeys that took them halfway across Syria as the battle frontlines shifted and they were forced to decamp.
~

Money

"Our captors were from a group that professed itself to be Islamist but that in reality is made up of mixed-up young men who have joined the revolution because the revolution now belongs to these groups that are midway between banditry and fanaticism," he said.

"They follow whoever promises them a future, gives them weapons, gives them money to buy cell phones, computers, clothes."

Such groups, he said, were trusted by the West but were in truth profiting from the revolution to "take over territory, hold the population to ransom, kidnap people and fill their pockets".
 

fanaskin

Well known agitator
<Silver Donator>
56,009
138,749
Justin Amash ?@repjustinamash

Pundits seem unaware that current diplomatic proposal didn't arise until public & Congress effectively took military option off the table.
~

In a response televised on Fox, Sen. Rand Paul argued that it was opposition to strike, not the threat of it, that facilitated Russia offer
 

fanaskin

Well known agitator
<Silver Donator>
56,009
138,749
Video of obama's syria speech



What President Obama said, what he meant


Here's a guide to what he said - and what he meant.

What he said: I will not put American boots on the ground in Syria. I will not pursue an open-ended action like Iraq or Afghanistan. I will not pursue a prolonged air campaign like Libya or Kosovo. This would be a targeted strike to achieve a clear objective: deterring the use of chemical weapons and degrading Assad's capabilities.

What he meant: America, I get it, I really get it - no more war. Will you just believe me already?

Translation: Obama's bid never took off because voters and lawmakers didn't like the idea of another military operation in the Middle East or they didn't believe the strikes would be limited.

Despite more than a week of nonstop campaigning, Obama couldn't move the poll numbers. A Pew Research Center survey from Sept. 4-8 showed that 63 percent of adults oppose the strikes, a 15-point jump from a week earlier.

(PHOTOS: Scenes from Syria)

So even as he built up the case for action, Obama tried to remind voters who they elected.

"I know that after the terrible toll of Iraq and Afghanistan, the idea of any military action - no matter how limited - is not going to be popular," he said. "After all, I've spent four-and-a-half years working to end wars, not to start them. Our troops are out of Iraq. Our troops are coming home from Afghanistan. And I know Americans want all of us in Washington - especially me - to concentrate on the task of building our nation here at home, putting people back to work, educating our kids, growing our middle class."

Obama doesn't expect the poll numbers on Syria to turn around after one prime time speech - or perhaps ever, really.

"I'm good, but not that good," Obama told the Senate Republican conference during a meeting Tuesday.

(WATCH: Mike Allen's top takeaways from Obama Syria address)

What he said: And so to my friends on the right, I ask you to reconcile your commitment to America's military might with the failure to act when a cause is so plainly just.

What he meant: Hypocritical Republicans, you supported intervention before you opposed it.

Translation: The White House knew the president's attempt to seek congressional approval wouldn't be easy.

But aides acknowledge that they underestimated the extent to which Republicans who advocated for intervention days or weeks before Obama's announcement would flip so quickly and oppose the president's plan.

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.), Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.), Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) and Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) made statements over the last two years that led the White House to believe that they would support the type of action that Obama had sought. But each senator came out against the resolution.

(Also on POLITICO: Obama's pitch: Someone should do something)

The Syria experience is now another data point in the White House's long list of grievances about congressional Republicans who take the opposite position of whatever Obama wants.

What he said: To my friends on the left, I ask you to reconcile your belief in freedom and dignity for all people with those images of children writhing in pain and going still on a cold hospital floor, for sometimes resolutions and statements of condemnation are simply not enough.

What he meant: Alright, liberals, your opposition forced me to recalibrate. But this Russia-Syria gambit isn't likely to work, so you're gonna have to accept a tougher approach.

Translation: Obama struggled just as much to win over progressives as he did Republicans.

But if the diplomatic efforts break down - or they never take off because Syria and Russia balk at the conditions - Obama insists he'll need Congress to sign off on strikes.

Aides said Obama could secure more Democratic votes at that point because he will have shown that diplomacy didn't work and the only alternative is military action. That's their hope, at least.

(Also on POLITICO: The diplomacy problem)

What he said: As some members of Congress have said, there's no point in simply doing a pinprick strike in Syria. Let me make something clear: The United States military doesn't do pinpricks.

What he meant: Don't listen to my secretary of state, John Kerry.

Translation: Kerry confused matters Monday when he said the strikes would be "unbelievably small."

The comment undercut Obama's claim that the military action would do serious damage to Syrian President Bashar Assad's capabilities and send a strong message that he can't use chemical weapons without facing retaliation.

"That is unbelievably unhelpful," Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) wrote on Twitter in response to Kerry.

Obama has been trying to roll back the damage of Kerry's remark ever since.

What he said: However, over the last few days we've seen some encouraging signs in part because of the credible threat of U.S. military action as well as constructive talks that I had with President Putin.

What he meant: I had a lot to do with this unexpected turn toward diplomacy, I swear!

Translation: Kerry's comment Monday that Syria could avoid strikes if President Bashar Assad turns over all its chemical weapons sounded off-the-cuff. And his spokeswoman even told reporters afterwards that he was making only rhetorical argument.

But Russia and Syria seized on the offer, and it appeared as if Obama had stumbled into a possible resolution of the Syria showdown - just as Congress prepared to deal him an embarrassing blow.

Obama sought to convey Tuesday that the breakthrough wasn't just luck.

He and Kerry had been talking with their counterparts in Russia for months about the role Russia could play in securing Syria's chemical weapons stockpile. And now administration aides are arguing that Obama's decision to strike Syria exerted pressure and forced the country towards a peaceful resolution.

"This is one of those situations where you create your own opportunities," a senior administration official said Tuesday. "We are fortunate that it happened at the right time."

What he said: However, over the last few days we've seen some encouraging signs in part because of the credible threat of U.S. military action as well as constructive talks that I had with President Putin.

What he meant: I had a lot to do with this unexpected turn toward diplomacy, I swear!

Translation: Kerry's comment Monday that Syria could avoid strikes if President Bashar Assad turns over all its chemical weapons sounded off-the-cuff. And his spokeswoman even told reporters afterwards that he was making only rhetorical argument.

But Russia and Syria seized on the offer, and it appeared as if Obama had stumbled into a possible resolution of the Syria showdown - just as Congress prepared to deal him an embarrassing blow.

Obama sought to convey Tuesday that the breakthrough wasn't just luck.

He and Kerry had been talking with their counterparts in Russia for months about the role Russia could play in securing Syria's chemical weapons stockpile. And now administration aides are arguing that Obama's decision to strike Syria exerted pressure and forced the country towards a peaceful resolution.

"This is one of those situations where you create your own opportunities," a senior administration official said Tuesday. "We are fortunate that it happened at the right time."
 

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
<Gold Donor>
81,600
163,205
Gopher + Jozu,

Obama wants regime change not chemical weapons, he wants Assad out. They stayed out of the civil war for 2 years as it seesawed back and forth and they quietly fed the rebels weapons, supplies and information.

Now that Assad got the upper hand over the rebels, US is looking for an excuse to intervene on rebels behalf. That's why this CW accusation is so ridiculous, there is zero reason for Assad to use them. So Assad says "fine, here are the CWs" and Americans agree not to attack in exchange. This is only to give them something to avoid going home entirely empty handed and embarrassed. CWs were never the goal in and of itself.

You two have been played like chumps.
 

Sebudai

Ssraeszha Raider
12,022
22,504
Why is/was regime change supposedly desirable from our perspective? The rebels seem worse than Assad.
 

BoldW

Molten Core Raider
2,081
25
Dudes, it's about the children. Are you against children? Are you for children being killed with chemical weapons (conventional is ok)?

Look, If we can save even one child's life, don't we owe it to ourselves?

We must respond in a tiny inconsequential manner, for the children.