Weight Loss Thread

McCheese

SW: Sean, CW: Crone, GW: Wizardhawk
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I didn't mean to imply that I have no willpower. On the contrary, I'm perfectly capable of controlling my eating (as evidenced by the fact that despite my love of shitty food I'm not horribly fat). I was just referring to how some people can so easily get full on tiny (in my opinion) amounts of food.
 

Ossoi

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Actually apparently he was having a different argument with himself. My entire point was that past a certain point protein has zero benefits. Satiety is a matter of eating enough calories and not eating quickly digested calories, like simple carbs. Even the study he linked about a "high protein" diet with carbs vs fats used my number for the amount of protein, because that is what is considered a high amount of protein in the medical community (since it is a higher amount than any study has ever found to have a benefit, barring steroids). So once protein is covered and you have the minimum amount of fat needed to make your organs function, you need to pick between fat or carbs. Going extreme into fat (roughly 2g of fat for every 1g of protein) and no more than 50g of carbs at most (less than 20g is better, though dietary fiber doesn't count) is a Ketogenic diet. Something less extreme, like Atkins, still cuts pretty far back on carbs, you feel full because of all the fat.

Though since fullness has been linked to psychological factors, it is possible a person who doesn't believe the science won't feel full even if they are. There have been instances of people with issues like that eating till they rupture their stomachs.
Seeing as you have not been able to post a 2000 calorie high fat, medium protein, low carb food plan that offers as much food as the high protein one I posted then you've just lost what little credibility you had to begin with.

Oh and earlier you debunked all the before and after pictures of people following the 12 Week body plan with 3-4g protein per kg as not a controlled study or some other stupid excuse. Well one of the guys LOGGED EVERYTHING HE DIDCarls Transformation | CarlGottlieb.comso how about you take your own advice and read the stuff I post.
 

The Master

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Correlation is not causation. You'd need a control group of a certain minimum size who did the same thing, except for reducing the protein, which would handily prove there is no difference. Luckily this has been done. See the link I posted about why so much protein is a myth. It has footnotes to all the major studies on the topic, you can go look them up. They've enjoyed the process of peer review as well, so in addition to being done by actual scientists under controlled conditions, with control groups and statistically valid sample sizes, the results have been reproduced by other groups of scientists doing the same thing.

Go to any keto website, they have a list of foods that you can build a meal plan from handily. There are also several books on the topic that have full diet plans. Written by actual doctors, even.

But I know you won't do any of that. In the interest of not pissing off Tuco I think it is time to put you on ignore.
 

Ossoi

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my heart bleeds that you're not going to be able to drag out your bullshit for the second day in a row and that I'm no longer going to have the chance to debate with someone that ducks requests for pics or physical stats, can't post meal plans as satisfying and with as much food as mine and someone that spends a whole day dragging out a retarded argument because he can't differentiate between weight loss for fatty/obese scalewatchers and fat loss for athletes/bodybuilders - THE TWO ARE WORLDS APART

Then there is the tired old attempted debunking of the guy behind the best PT business in London (responsible for this transformation in 15 weeks15 Weeks To Ripped | Mens Fitness Magazine) as JUST BEING IN IT FOR NOTORIETY FAME LOLZ.

Also worth pointing out that the guy on the cover of 12wbp was the overweight non training editor of Mens Fitness in the UK. The whole book is the exact program, diet, supplements they used to get him from 16% body fat to 5.5% in 12 weeks, by the end he'd gone up like 2kg despite having 11% less body fat, but yeah 4g of protein per day means nothing despite having provided dozens of results pictures of people who followed the plan to the letter!

Then there's the debunking of Lyle Mcdonald, one of the most well known and reputable voices in the online fitness/nutrition world as using athletes on steroids for the article I posted.

I'm not saying science doesn't have a place but we all know what can be achieved in a lab does not always translate to a real world environment. Results = credibility = authority.
 

Ossoi

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Lyle McDonald Interview: Protein and Muscle GrowthGood interview with Lyle McDonald focusing exclusively on protein

"As well, most research looks simply at skeletal muscle metabolism and there are a host of other pathways (e.g. immune system function, connective tissue synthesis and others) that require protein/amino acids that may be upregulated with athletic training.All would be expected to potentially increase protein requirements but this area has been woefully unstudied."

"I'd note tangentially that, a recent paper I just read, using a different method of estimating maintenance protein requirements for non-athletes came to the conclusion that currently recommended protein levels are too low."

"At this point, in lieu of better data, I tend towards the higher end of protein recommendations. I think it's better to err on the side of slightly too much (where, at worst, protein becomes an expensive source of energy) than risking too little (where, at worst, performance, recovery, immunity, etc. is potentially compromised)." <---exactly my point when eating at a calorific deficit which puts your body into a catabolic state why take any chances with lean muscle mass?

"In The Protein Book, I recommend a maximum of 3.0 grams per kilogram of bodyweight (roughly 1.4 grams per pound) of protein as a habitual intake for strength athletes,this can go up a bit during dieting of course." So someone dieting for fat loss should eat more protein (obvious as presumably someone going for fat loss will be cutting out or cycling carbs)

So conclusion from that article is that previous studies into protein requirements have been woefully understudied, and Lyle again states that 3g/kg and even more is recommended for strength athletes.

HMMMMMMM
 

Ossoi

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Can we toss Ossoi in the RRP for a few days? He adds nothing to this (stellar)thread besides caliper masturbation.
Translation: I don't agree with anything he says despite numerous sources and his own results and pics backing up what he posts, LETS RICKSHAW HIM
 

nate_sl

shitlord
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Even though I've lost about 10 lbs., I'm still hungry all the time. I eat a small breakfast (500 cals, all protein) then have some sort of snack (200 cal) every 1.5 hours until lunch, which is a salad (400 cals?), 2 or 3 afternoon snacks, then a large post workout dinner (1000 cals). I'm still losing weight just by cutting basically all carbs sans a single potato and a couple pieces of whole wheat toast.
 

Khane

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Ossoi you have no ability to see past your own nose. You're a textbook narcissist. What you keep failing to see is that you are not the norm. You are the exception. Most people will not, and don't want to, eat as much protein as you do. So to fill out the rest of their diets they have to choose either fats or carbs. A low carb diet has been proven to satiate hunger and stave off overeating better than a low fat diet and that's the point. I mean, the diet you've posted that you say you follow has almost no veggies in it. Normal people like to eat vegetables. When I eat almost exclusively protein in a day I feel sick. I need some broccoli or a salad or bell peppers or spinach. And I dress those in fat (butter or olive oil). I also eat nuts (cashews and almonds mostly), some cheese (though not much) and fattier meats.

Your original request:

I'll stop fuelling this argument if someone can design me for a daily meal plan that is low/zero carb, medium protein (165g / 1g per lb my current weight) and high fat AND that is paleo compatible and comes in at roughly 2000 calories (the amount I'm currently eating to cut further) and consists of as much real food as possible (eg pouring tbsps of olive oil over every meal to boost fat/calories isn't going to be filling enough).

The point is it's easier and much more practical to boost protein intake over fats and there's simply a lot more good choices available
A typical day for me is 2 eggs for breakfast (10g fat, 12g protein, 156 cal), some cashews (about 28g) as a mid morning snack (12g fat, 5g protein, 157 cal), a salad for lunch which typically consists of about 180g of chicken (40g protein, 7g fat, 223cal), 2 ounces of cheddar (18g fat, 14g protein, 226 cal), a negligable amount of bell peppers but for argument sake let's say 1 whole medium green bell pepper (0g fat, 1g protein, 24 cal) and about 2 ounces of roasted red peppers (0g fat, 0g protein, 20 cal) over a bed of romaine, probably around 425g (1.5g fat, 5g protein, 75 cal) and I dress it in about 1.5 tbsp of olive oil (21g fat, 0g protein, 178.5 cal). I also sautee the chicken in olive oil so let's add 1tbsp of that as well (14g fat, 0g protein, 119 cal). For dinner I'll eat something like baked chicken breast covered in brushetta and fresh mozzarella. Let's ballpark it at 260g of chicken (80g protein, 14g fat, 446 cal), 2 ounces fresh mozzarella (10g fat, 16g protein, 156 cal), about a half a medium tomato (0g fat, .5g protein, 11 cal) and a negligable amount of basil. I bake it and drizzle it in olive oil and let's call that another tbsp (14g fat, 0g protein, 119 cal). I'll also steam some broccoli, 148g or so (0g fat, 4g protein, 50 cal) and use about 1 tbsp of butter on the broccoli after cooking (12g fat, 0g protein, 102 cal).

Totals for that are 133.5g fat, 177.5g protein, 2062 calories. I forgot to do the carb totals but you can tell it's very low just based on the foods involved. You can pretend that isn't a satisfactory day of eating but I am sated throughout the day when I eat like that. Also, those olive oil numbers seem a little high, it might be less than that but I'm ballparking here. So there's your high fat 2000 calorie meal plan you were asking for and I'm pretty sure it's paleo compatible though I've never really studied that diet.
 

Ossoi

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You're a textbook narcissist. What you keep failing to see is that you are not the norm. You are the exception. Most people will not, and don't want to, eat as much protein as you do.
Stopped reading at this point because

a) I've already posted links to multiple people who recommend 3g+/kg
b) It should be obvious by now (after 9 months) that I am not pursuing diet goals like "most people" which basically translate to "I want the number on the scale to go down". I want to reduce my body fat and increase my lean muscle mass
 

Khane

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Stopped reading at this point because

a) I've already posted links to multiple people who recommend 3g+/kg
b) It should be obvious by now (after 9 months) that I am not pursuing diet goals like "most people" which basically translate to "I want the number on the scale to go down". I want to reduce my body fat and increase my lean muscle mass
Yet you make blanket statements such as "My diet is superior than everyone else's and there is no way a high fat diet can satiate hunger like this ludicrous amount of protein I eat, it's fact"

Glad you stopped reading when I posted numbers for exactly what you requested. You are a worthless poster in this thread.
 

Deathwing

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Translation: I don't agree with anything he says despite numerous sources and his own results and pics backing up what he posts, LETS RICKSHAW HIM
I don't care what you're saying. Your posts are contentious and a chore to read. Even if you're right, your posts add nothing because nobody is going to take what you're saying seriously.
 

Ossoi

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Totals for that are 133.5g fat, 177.5g protein, 2062 calories. I forgot to do the carb totals but you can tell it's very low just based on the foods involved. You can pretend that isn't a satisfactory day of eating but I am sated throughout the day when I eat like that. Also, those olive oil numbers seem a little high, it might be less than that but I'm ballparking here. So there's your high fat 2000 calorie meal plan you were asking for and I'm pretty sure it's paleo compatible though I've never really studied that diet.
As I said earlier, you're getting all your fat from olive oil which imo isn't a real food. How many chicken breasts are you eating in the evening, the average breast I can buy in the UK comes in at 150-175g not 260g.

And as I've told Tarrant in PMs (if he's bothered to read them), the majority of people on this thread have been against everything I've ever posted here...yeah you might have a point about calipers not being scientifically accurate but as I said back then, if they're a reliable and consistent way to track progress then who cares if they're scientifically precise to the nth percentile...and some of the other stuff like Arkks bullshit about every PT being a snake oil salesman is just ridiculous and tiresome

Point = yes I'm defensive but after 9 months of getting results and having internet avatars with zero credentials try and constantly tell me I'm wrong then it gets tiresome. And if you actually read back to the start of the debate about protein you'll see I made the point from the very start that higher protein was necessary for weightlifters and not scalewatchers, not my fault that the guy I was arguing with missed that and kept fuelling the debate unnecessarily, as for the reasons he was using to tear down my sources then jeez give me a break

I told you from the very start I would post pics when I reached my objectives and I delivered, it's about time you guys got off my back
 

Khane

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I guess if you ignore the cheese, chicken, eggs and cashews then yea... all the fat comes from olive oil. Ossoi you basically said it's impossible to feel full unless you're eating an overly large amount of protein. You were proven wrong and now you're latching onto arguments nobody ever made in the first place.

There is a reason everyone is against your posts and it's because you think nobody but you is right.
 

Ossoi

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I just totalled it up and 50% of your fat for the day is coming from olive oil and butter.
 

Khane

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Half is a far cry from all. And those are two very good, healthy sources of fat. Your point seems to be "It doesn't count because I say it doesn't count". If you took the olive oil and butter away from those meals they would still be filling is what you are saying, because you're saying olive oil and butter have no substance. Or are you saying that you think what I posted isn't a substantial amount of real food for a normal, healthy adult male? The truth is olive oil and butter do have substance and are filling when eaten with other foods, yet for some reason you claim it isn't.
 

Ossoi

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The satiating power of protein-a key to obesity prevention?It's unversally acknowledged that protein is more filling than fat/carbs, this really shouldn't have kept being debated for the last 24 hours, RICKSHAW!

In this issue of the Journal, Weigle et al (3) showed that an increase in dietary protein from 15% to 30% of energy and a reduction in fat from 35% to 20%, at a constant carbohydrate intake, produces a sustained decrease in ad libitum calorie intake and results in significant weight loss. They sequentially assigned 19 persons to the following diet regimens: 2 wk of a weight-maintenance diet (15% of energy as protein, 35% as fat, and 50% as carbohydrate), 2 wk of an isocaloric diet (30% of energy as protein, 20% as fat, and 50% as carbohydrate), or 12 wk of an ad libitum diet (30% of energy as protein, 20% as fat, and 50% as carbohydrate). They found that the subjects felt more satiated with the isocaloric high-protein diet than with the weight-maintenance diet. When the subjects were given the possibility to regulate their energy intake under the ad libitum conditions, spontaneous calorie intake decreased by 441 kcal/d, body weight decreased by 4.9 kg, and fat mass decreased by 3.7 kg. We do not yet understand how protein increases satiety. Weigle et al found that the effect could not be explained by changes in the hunger hormone ghrelin or in the satiety hormone leptin.