Weight Loss Thread

Khane · Jun 7, 2014

13% bodyfat is NOT natural. You have to practically goddamn starve yourself to do that Elurin. In shape people aren't 13% or less body fat. Psychopaths are. Or are you saying that just because someone who is 16% bodyfat can still lose weight AND gain muscle it's only because they are "significantly overweight"?

And even then, just take a look at Hershel Walker. Watch his videos and see what he's capable of doing with the minimal amounts of food he eats. Although, I'd agree he's probably a genetic goddamn freak. No actually he definitely is.

Gravel · Jun 7, 2014

Herschel Walker is a ridiculous example, due to his genetics. This is him as a fucking teenager. That shit isn't normal.

By significantly overweight, I mean in the 20-22%+ range. For someone that's been training for 2+ years, you'll be lucky to gain half a pound of muscle a month. Good luck gaining that half pound when you're in a caloric deficit.

Khane · Jun 7, 2014

You won't be gaining weight at all. You'll be losing it. But you'll be building strength while doing it. I did it. All the way to 17% bodyfat.

By the way Hershel Walker was a joke example. I even said so myself.

Warmuth · Jun 7, 2014

I'm not really part of the argument, generally because I know dick about actual facts when it comes to nutrition but I am curious about the claims that cotradict everything I've read. That Walker pic though, jfc. Genetics can go fuck themselves.

Tuco · Jun 7, 2014

Ossoi_sl said:
Did you even watch the video? Clearly you didn't, as the context is "the average beginner" who is "20-25% bf"

Elurin_sl said:
I'd like to see someone who's been lifting for several years and is sub-13% bodyfat lose weight and gain muscle at the same time.

I think there's a disconnect here...

If a fatass starts lifting and eating right he's going to gain muscle mass and lose fat. But sub13% body fat lifter? Don't hold your breath.

Antarius · Jun 7, 2014

Himeo_sl said:
I post links to videos or websites with solid research on this topic.

People lose the weight and gain it back in a few years. That's what the article was about.

That graph does not show what you think it shows...

90% of the people in that study, which all lost greater than 10% weight... ended up at a lower weight 4 years later than what they started at... only a small fraction, 10% , ended up higher than where they began.

70% of the people ended up keeping off at least half of the weight they originally lost.

Himeo · Jun 7, 2014

Fuck.

Ossoi · Jun 8, 2014

Elurin_sl said:
Herschel Walker is a ridiculous example, due to his genetics. This is him as a fucking teenager. That shit isn't normal.

By significantly overweight, I mean in the 20-22%+ range. For someone that's been training for 2+ years, you'll be lucky to gain half a pound of muscle a month. Good luck gaining that half pound when you're in a caloric deficit.

Why would someone who's been training for two years be 20%+ lol?

Ossoi · Jun 8, 2014

Khane_sl said:
13% bodyfat is NOT natural. You have to practically goddamn starve yourself to do that Elurin. In shape people aren't 13% or less body fat. Psychopaths are. .

Stupidest comment in history of this thread

Ossoi · Jun 8, 2014

Khane_sl said:
You won't be gaining weight at all. You'll be losing it. But you'll be building strength while doing it. I did it. All the way to 17% bodyfat.

We're not talking about getting stronger on a cut, we're talking about gaining muscle whilst losing body fat

Khane · Jun 8, 2014

Stupidest huh? Never change Ossoi.

And typically getting stronger involves building muscle. But I suppose there are people out there who get stronger and stronger without ever gaining lean mass. Haha.

McCheese · Jun 8, 2014

I don't think 13% body fat is unnatural, and you don't have to starve yourself to get there.

Ossoi · Jun 8, 2014

McCheese_sl said:
I don't think 13% body fat is unnatural, and you don't have to starve yourself to get there.

For reals, getting from 15% to 10% is done in exactly the same way as getting from 20-15 or 25-20. Sure, it might take longer the leaner you get, but it's done in exactly the same way.

Anyway, we've gone off on a tangent, as a result of me telling Himeo that carbs are necessary to build muscle.

If you still don't believe me Himeo, go and read up about timed or cyclical keto diets, which are just different methods of what I've been recommending - carb cycling.

Essentially it comes down to this, the leaner you get, the more insulin sensitive you become. This makes your body better at using insulin to feed muscles rather than fat cells. Working out increases insulin sensitivity too, which makes post workout the ideal time to eat carbs. e.g Sweet Potatoes.

matsb84 · Jun 8, 2014

Khane_sl said:
But I suppose there are people out there who get stronger and stronger without ever gaining lean mass. Haha.

There are quite a few people like that. Step into a gym and you'll see plenty of unassuming looking people putting up serious weight. Strength and size don't always correlate. And 13% bf isn't unnatural..what brought you to that conclusion? Unnatural to me would be anything like 5-6% bf or below.

Ambiturner · Jun 8, 2014

Come on guys, there's no reason you can't all be wrong

Ossoi · Jun 8, 2014

Warmuth_sl said:
I'm sacrificing quite a bit of muscle to get down to sub 10% but I'm not going to even think about any sort of bulk until I see abs. I'd be interested to know what to change to actually gain lean mass while cutting.

What's your current diet?

I cut with 4g protein per kg on non training days. 3g protein on training days with 125-200g carbs postworkout, depending on the intensity of the workout

Ambiturner · Jun 8, 2014

matsb84_sl said:
There are quite a few people like that. Step into a gym and you'll see plenty of unassuming looking people putting up serious weight. Strength and size don't always correlate. And 13% bf isn't unnatural..what brought you to that conclusion? Unnatural to me would be anything like 5-6% bf or below.

It's something that's so different from person to person that trying to attach a number to it is pointless. I'd definitely put it closer to 5% than 13% for the vast majority of people, though.

For the strength vs size debate it's just a matter of how you look at it. Your muscles aren't actually getting stronger if they're not growing even though you're able to lift more weight. You basically become more efficient at the exercise so you can lift more. You're stronger in that specific exercise, but not as much as a completely different exercise that works the same muscle

Ossoi · Jun 8, 2014

I've been on a cut for the last few months, 1800-2300 calories, training five times a week.

My chest is definitely very improved, and this is 14 months after I started training

Himeo · Jun 8, 2014

Ossoi_sl said:
For reals, getting from 15% to 10% is done in exactly the same way as getting from 20-15 or 25-20. Sure, it might take longer the leaner you get, but it's done in exactly the same way.

Anyway, we've gone off on a tangent, as a result of me telling Himeo that carbs are necessary to build muscle.

If you still don't believe me Himeo, go and read up about timed or cyclical keto diets, which are just different methods of what I've been recommending - carb cycling.

Essentially it comes down to this, the leaner you get, the more insulin sensitive you become. This makes your body better at using insulin to feed muscles rather than fat cells. Working out increases insulin sensitivity too, which makes post workout the ideal time to eat carbs. e.g Sweet Potatoes.

I don't disagree with you entirely. Carb cycling may be optimal for muscle gain, but that's not my primary goal with lifting right now.

Tuco · Jun 8, 2014

I don't really know why people would say a low fat % is natural or unnatural, I'm not sure what people think those at 3% do that's unnatural but here's a handy guide:

Obviously sub10% isn't some freakish amount, but getting sub 5% isn't fun or healthy.

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