Weight Loss Thread

Khane · Feb 2, 2025

You have to change your relationship with food to maintain a healthy weight no matter what. Whether you use these GLP-1 drugs or not. But for many people, they have never been to able to lose weight on their own and these drugs at least give them a chance and let them see what the other side at least feels like as a catalyst for better behavior.

Daidraco · Feb 2, 2025

Khane said:
You have to change your relationship with food to maintain a healthy weight no matter what. Whether you use these GLP-1 drugs or not. But for many people, they have never been to able to lose weight on their own and these drugs at least give them a chance and let them see what the other side at least feels like as a catalyst for better behavior.

I havent seen that tease work out in favor of life altering changes. Ive only seen it work out to "Damn. Ive gained back 25 pounds this summer. Time to start the shots again!"

Khane · Feb 2, 2025

Daidraco said:
I havent seen that tease work out in favor of life altering changes. Ive only seen it work out to "Damn. Ive gained back 25 pounds this summer. Time to start the shots again!"

These drugs are wildly fascinating to me because my 64 year old aunt, who has been severely overweight for 30+ years, lost 80lbs in ~7 months after she started taking Wegovy. That's insane. And after that a bunch of family friends started taking it too and all these old ass people in my family are shedding weight like crazy.

People that old having that kind of success when they spent decades overweight can only be a good thing.

I see an opportunity for this administration with these as well. The insurance companies are either denying (in the case of more traditional plans) or approving and gouging (in the case of HDHPs). What has happened for several of the people I know is they get approved but with their HDHP the cost of the medication is ~$1300 if they want it to count towards their deductible. If they go through the group cards provided by the pharma companies that make the drugs its only $650 but it does not count towards the deductible.

This administration could simultaneously dunk on the ACA and legitimately help a ton of Americans. Imagine Trump getting to say he helped solve the obesity epidemic and definitively show how corrupt and toothless the ACA is as legislation. Could also target Mounjaro/Zepbound specifically for cheaper prices since thats made by Eli Lilly, an American company, and Ozempic/Wegovy are made by a Danish company (Novo Nordisk)

Chris · Feb 2, 2025

Daidraco said:
Yea it works. But you're still going to have to learn how to control how much you're eating, what you can eat and what you cant eat. Instinctively know how many calories you've eaten throughout the day and the kind of work you need to put in if it goes past your BMR. I know a handful of people that have used that drug or the other one and out of all of them, only my niece has kept the body weight off after stopping and thats because I built her a gym routine with a diet plan. .... But even she is starting to slip back into dumb shit. She put up a fucking video about what you can and cannot eat at fucking Popeyes Chicken of all places the other day. Im not saying she cant eat it. But I've noticed between all of them is that they started to rationalize eating shitty food "Oh its only 310 calories if I dont eat the biscuit!" ... Ok.. and how long before you say "Its only 580 calories with the biscuit!" as if the 300 calories she burns off on the fucking Stairmaster is going to make all that other shit disappear.

But regardless man, Im just ranting cause I want people to do better. I also think in the back of my head that Im eventually going to lose my discipline for some reason and stop going to the gym or stop eating balanced, measured, timed meals. But Im glad you're losing weight.

I'm hoping it's a vicious cycle thing for me, I feel like shit so eating more to feel better short term, then long term eating more makes me feel like shit. Breaking one link can help break the whole wheel.

I've yoyo'ed between medically obese and overweight a few times, I know how to eat and get fit, it's the stress coping mechanism that's the issue.

Gurgeh · Feb 2, 2025

Khane said:
These drugs are wildly fascinating to me because my 64 year old aunt, who has been severely overweight for 30+ years, lost 80lbs in ~7 months after she started taking Wegovy. That's insane. And after that a bunch of family friends started taking it too and all these old ass people in my family are shedding weight like crazy.

People that old having that kind of success when they spent decades overweight can only be a good thing.

I see an opportunity for this administration with these as well. The insurance companies are either denying (in the case of more traditional plans) or approving and gouging (in the case of HDHPs). What has happened for several of the people I know is they get approved but with their HDHP the cost of the medication is ~$1300 if they want it to count towards their deductible. If they go through the group cards provided by the pharma companies that make the drugs its only $650 but it does not count towards the deductible.

This administration could simultaneously dunk on the ACA and legitimately help a ton of Americans. Imagine Trump getting to say he helped solve the obesity epidemic and definitively show how corrupt and toothless the ACA is as legislation. Could also target Mounjaro/Zepbound specifically for cheaper prices since thats made by Eli Lilly, an American company, and Ozempic/Wegovy are made by a Danish company (Novo Nordisk)

I think it’s a bit optmistic. Obesity is a symptom of shitty lifestyle, i doubt a pill is going to magically cure shitty lifestyles.

The benefit will probably outweight the risk for many morbidly obese people, but it might even hurt people who are just overweight, just considering the loss of muscle mass.

If you've got a dubious lifestyle, the last thing you want when you're 50+ is increased muscle atrophy. Being 28 bmi won't hurt much your life expectancy. Being bottom 10% in muscle mass will.

Apparently it also hurt bone density, not good either, and we won’t really know about all the side effects for a decade. Like statins and ppi...

Probably good for someone who has 100 pounds to lose and low willpower, though.

Chris · Feb 2, 2025

Gurgeh said:
I think it’s a bit optmistic. Obesity is a symptom of shitty lifestyle, i doubt a pill is going to magically cure shitty lifestyles.

The benefit will probably outweight the risk for many morbidly obese people, but it might even hurt people who are just overweight, just considering the loss of muscle mass.

If you've got a dubious lifestyle, the last thing you want when you're 50+ is increased muscle atrophy. Being 28 bmi won't hurt much your life expectancy. Being bottom 10% in muscle mass will.

Apparently it also hurt bone density, not good either, and we won’t really know about all the side effects for a decade. Like statins and ppi...

Probably good for someone who has 100 pounds to lose and low willpower, though.

Where did you see that?

Would be good to know so I can add in exercise (will do this anyway), protein and up my calcium intake.

Obesity has it's own side effects so unless I get turbo cancer it'll be worth it, I'm already full of spike protein from the covid vaccine apparently lol.

Khane · Feb 2, 2025

Gurgeh said:
I think it’s a bit optmistic. Obesity is a symptom of shitty lifestyle, i doubt a pill is going to magically cure shitty lifestyles.

The benefit will probably outweight the risk for many morbidly obese people, but it might even hurt people who are just overweight, just considering the loss of muscle mass.

If you've got a dubious lifestyle, the last thing you want when you're 50+ is increased muscle atrophy. Being 28 bmi won't hurt much your life expectancy. Being bottom 10% in muscle mass will.

Apparently it also hurt bone density, not good either, and we won’t really know about all the side effects for a decade. Like statins and ppi...

Probably good for someone who has 100 pounds to lose and low willpower, though.

These drugs, from everything I've read, don't change the way the body functions in relation to finding and creating energy or promote muscle loss as a primary effect of the drug. This happens when people who are severely overweight and exceptionally sedentary lose large amounts of weight very fast. Which happens in "normal" dieting scenarios too if they follow them strictly enough to promote the same level of weight loss. My aunt doesn't look particularly ghoulish like John Goodman does, but I know what you're saying.

One interesting thing my aunt has spoken about to my parents, who now also want to ask their PCP about them, is that her desire/cravings for alcohol have severely diminished since taking it. So, as for curing shitty lifestyles? These drugs might actually alter brain chemistry enough when it comes to consumption in general that they actually do.

The Hollywood effect and the drugs themselves gaining attention because of celebrities using them even for vanity weight loss attached a pretty big stigma to them for the general public but people seem to be getting past that now.

Chris · Feb 2, 2025

Khane said:
One interesting thing my aunt has spoken about to my parents, who now also want to ask their PCP about them, is that her desire/cravings for alcohol have severely diminished since taking it. So, as for curing shitty lifestyles? These drugs might actually alter brain chemistry enough when it comes to consumption in general that they actually do.

This matches what I experienced for junk food (fast food, chips, chocolate, sugary drinks, desserts). I didn't crave it exactly, I just knew I could self medicate it to relive stress. I've inexplicably stopped wanting that and felt off the 2-3 times I did have something extra.

Also it's $150 a month since NHS only gives it to deathfats. That's a huge incentive to not waste money on snacks and unnessesary portion sizes.

It's originally a diabetes drug so there are hormone changes involved. Female family memebers on it reported changed in periods and infact took it on purpose for that effect (helps with polysistic ovaries).

Armadon · Feb 2, 2025

I've been cycling retatrutide for the last year to stay between 12-15% body fat. I'll use it for a month every 3 months. You will have absolutely zero cravings for shit food, alcohol, drugs, whatever. It's a cheat code for sure because you can kinda eat a little terrible on it but you can't eat junk food all day and stay in shape. As long as you're in the gym you won't experience the muscle loss like the others.

Animosity · Feb 2, 2025

Are these drugs that easy to get? I know so many people on them who aren’t even obese, just a little chubby. Thought you had to have some huge weight problem. But then again pharmaceuticals in the US aren’t hard to get if you have a few bucks.

Daidraco · Feb 2, 2025

Animosity said:
Are these drugs that easy to get? I know so many people on them who aren’t even obese, just a little chubby. Thought you had to have some huge weight problem. But then again pharmaceuticals in the US aren’t hard to get if you have a few bucks.

Depending on where you're at, a lot of places have some kind of "fashion" clinic. Which prescribes things like those drugs, Testosterone, injectables (like dermals), Tanning Beds, Spray tans, etc. etc. These clinics unsurprisingly make a ton of fucking money. But even if you go to a regular doctor, you should still have no problem getting the stuff theyre talking about.

Khane · Feb 2, 2025

Animosity said:
Are these drugs that easy to get? I know so many people on them who aren’t even obese, just a little chubby. Thought you had to have some huge weight problem. But then again pharmaceuticals in the US aren’t hard to get if you have a few bucks.

If you find a doctor willing to prescribe them, as long as you can pay you can get them. They're expensive though when not covered. $650 for a 4 week supply if you use the group cards the pharma companies offer.

Animosity · Feb 2, 2025

Khane said:
If you find a doctor willing to prescribe them, as long as you can pay you can get them. They're expensive though when not covered. $650 for a 4 week supply if you use the group cards the pharma companies offer.

God damn that’s insane. But I guess if I was obese I would pay for it if I needed the help. I lost 100lbs the old fashion way 10 years ago. And have kept it off.

Armadon · Feb 2, 2025

You can get them from "research only" websites. I pay $150 for mine.

Gurgeh · Feb 3, 2025

Chris said:
Where did you see that?

Would be good to know so I can add in exercise (will do this anyway), protein and up my calcium intake.

Obesity has it's own side effects so unless I get turbo cancer it'll be worth it, I'm already full of spike protein from the covid vaccine apparently lol.

First heard of it with people talking about how some influencer was losing a lot of muscle while fasting (Peter Attia, I believe), and someone mentionning it was due to Ozempyc. Then, I checked the litterature, and there are indeed plenty of research showing that.

It would seem you can manage it by having increased activity, which some people like Attia can manage, but the vast majority of fatasses? Once you've lost 20 pounds of muscles at 65, getting them back might be borderline impossible.

The question is, is the muscle loss due to caloric restriction only? If so, being 1 week on it, 3 days off or whatever, would probably entirely remove the problem (same as fasting: fast and feat). Or is worse than that?

Same for bone density, if you're losing both muscle mass and bone density that's really bad, and you need to be on death's door for the benefit to outweight the risk.

If you're using ozempic or the like, I would say monitor your muscle mass, it's inexpensive and easy to do.

Khane · Feb 3, 2025

Armadon said:
You can get them from "research only" websites. I pay $150 for mine.

You should add that retatrutide, and other drugs like it, are still in trial phase and are not FDA approved. This one is made by the Eli Lilly company, same company that makes Mounjaro, but it should be noted that it is experimental. Retatrutide seems like it might be even more effective for weight loss but its early days there and much more of a "will this give me cancer aids" gamble in that sense.

FDA’s Concerns with Unapproved GLP-1 Drugs Used for Weight Loss

www.fda.gov

Retatrutide cannot be used in compounding
Retatrutide cannot be used in compounding under federal law. Additionally, it is not a component of an FDA-approved drug and has not been found safe and effective for any condition.

Palum · Feb 3, 2025

Can someone explain to me the benefit of these drugs vs just intermittent fasting?

Gurgeh · Feb 3, 2025

Palum said:
Can someone explain to me the benefit of these drugs vs just intermittent fasting?

I don't think even the most retarded people will argue that they're better than proper diet and exercises... The answer is pretty simple, most people severly lack willpower, so it's easier, a lot easier.

Which is fine, for some people, extremely obese. But you start seeing people, Hollywood stars started the trend, take these drugs long term to look nice... I mean if you're doing like an Hollywood Star, you deserve everything that is going to happen to you. The side effect list is an encyclopedia of side effects, and the muscle loss is found in pretty much every study, depending on the study, the muscle loss range from 15% to 60% of the total loss of weight. Changes in lean body mass with glucagon-like peptide-1-based therapies and mitigation strategies - PubMed. It doesn't seem the muscle loss is only due to weight loss, it seems something is happening, because the loss of muscle is unusually high for a diet. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmo...cle-loss-with-popular-obesity-drugs-1.7376889, on mouse it's shrinking the heart, but rest assured "we don't know if it's bad".

When you see it can take months to gain a single pound of muscle... Is the risk worth the benefit for someone just overweight, or slightly obese ?

Someone losing weight through fasting and exercice will gain muscle mass.

Control · Feb 3, 2025

Gurgeh said:
The question is, is the muscle loss due to caloric restriction only?

It's been a while since I looked at it so no links, but I seem to remember the muscle loss % being similar to fairly extreme fasting/caloric restriction. Not sure if these have anything extra going on, but if you take a typical non-active person and cut their calories 75% for months on end, they're going to lose a lot of muscle. I think on one of Attia or Huberman's podcasts, they showed that muscle could be preserved with reasonable protein intake and fairly minimal strength training. Of course, most people who need these aren't going to be good at maintaining healthy habits so... Although tbf, there's a lot of life that gets a LOT easier after you lose a significant portion of your bodyweight, and if you're carrying around 100 fewer pounds, you legitimately need less muscle to service your typical activities.

Daidraco · Feb 3, 2025

Gurgeh said:
First heard of it with people talking about how some influencer was losing a lot of muscle while fasting (Peter Attia, I believe), and someone mentionning it was due to Ozempyc. Then, I checked the litterature, and there are indeed plenty of research showing that.

It would seem you can manage it by having increased activity, which some people like Attia can manage, but the vast majority of fatasses? Once you've lost 20 pounds of muscles at 65, getting them back might be borderline impossible.

The question is, is the muscle loss due to caloric restriction only? If so, being 1 week on it, 3 days off or whatever, would probably entirely remove the problem (same as fasting: fast and feat). Or is worse than that?

Same for bone density, if you're losing both muscle mass and bone density that's really bad, and you need to be on death's door for the benefit to outweight the risk.

If you're using ozempic or the like, I would say monitor your muscle mass, it's inexpensive and easy to do.

What a lot of people, even those that are involved in fitness forget when they lose a lot of weight, is just that. They lost a bunch of weight and theyre no longer carrying it around all day. What takes a 300 pound person in calories to do (as simple as it may be) will not be even remotely close to what a 170 pound person has in expenditure. Not only that, the muscles that lifted up those 300 pounds are no longer needed and no longer being worked in order to keep them that size. Ever look at some fat person and their fucking calves are like these rock solid fucking tree trunks? Its because theyre doing a fucking deadlift/squat a billion times a day.

The face is an odd one, though. I can see it on my aunt (that whole side of the family jumped on the ozempic wagon) and its sunken in like the news articles talk about. My cousins face sunk in, but its not so obvious on her. I think the face has a lot to do with how much of a fat face/head the person has. For instance, now that Ive lost my weight.. I guess I had fat cheeks? Cause my Nasolabial folds (the lines from nose to mouth) are really noticeable now.

Weight Loss Thread

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