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I'm kinda wondering what level of effect the SCOTUS overturning Chevron Deference is going to have on a lot of that regulation that applies to automotive design.
What vehicle do you drive?
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Siliconemelons
Avatar of War Slayer
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Ford has a lot of problems, but so does everyone else who is not Tesla or Rivian in the EV world.
Over complication and a odd amalgamation of an over engineered...or over designed product that under delivers.
Just watch a few videos of that dude that takes apart Teslas and EVs - like for a simple example, the A/C on a Tesla vs a Ford Mach-e - Tesla its super lean, like a nice clean system only needed stuff, on the Ford its like a medusa and obviously a thing kinda modified to work in a EV... A/C on an EV should be simple - you have a direct power accessible, no need for belts, serpentine systems, alternators etc.
I am glad Ford is staying on their EVs as I have one ... but they need help in the way all the legacy people do... the ID.4 and Kia's are no better in this issue. As an outsider it just seems as simple as... Tesla started with fresh eyes and no assumptions...everyone else is modifying rather than making something "new" and what they do make "new" is really still based on old methodologies. Toyota's EVs wheels fell off...like...come on.
Over complication and a odd amalgamation of an over engineered...or over designed product that under delivers.
Just watch a few videos of that dude that takes apart Teslas and EVs - like for a simple example, the A/C on a Tesla vs a Ford Mach-e - Tesla its super lean, like a nice clean system only needed stuff, on the Ford its like a medusa and obviously a thing kinda modified to work in a EV... A/C on an EV should be simple - you have a direct power accessible, no need for belts, serpentine systems, alternators etc.
I am glad Ford is staying on their EVs as I have one ... but they need help in the way all the legacy people do... the ID.4 and Kia's are no better in this issue. As an outsider it just seems as simple as... Tesla started with fresh eyes and no assumptions...everyone else is modifying rather than making something "new" and what they do make "new" is really still based on old methodologies. Toyota's EVs wheels fell off...like...come on.
Fucker
Log Wizard
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Yeah. The only reason to get them was reliability and resale. Now that's pretty much out the window for their new stuff. I looked at the Grand Highlander, pretty down market effort, and the interiors on the new Lexus TX (a barely worked over Grand Highlander) and GX are dead last for appeal. Drivetrains outside of grocery getters are overly complex and expensive for no real benefit in MPG. More power for sure but the tradeoff for cost and complexity doesn't pay off.
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Aamry
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Charging station availability, driving range, charging time, overall depreciation, hazards from the battery, are really driving factors keeping me away.Just saw a survey that said 40% of EV owners are planning on going back to ICE for their next vehicle..
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Mizake
Trakanon Raider
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Just saw a survey that said 40% of EV owners are planning on going back to ICE for their next vehicle..
It would be interesting to see a breakdown by manufacturer type.
The #1 complaint has to be charging infrastructure. Any EV that is not a Tesla is handicapped by this and can't be used for long distance travel comfortably. So you are limited to just driving locally. This wouldn't be a complaint with Tesla since their charging infrastructure is pretty robust.
Again, the government could the cart before the horse trying to jam EVs down everyone's throats. It would be like forcing everyone to adopt cars back in the early 20th century without building gas stations along the way.
Lanx
<Prior Amod>
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90minutes of doing nuttin while paying 73dollars to charge up sounds stupid
the ppl that are staying w/ ev's are probably grandfathered in to free tesla charging
Mizake
Trakanon Raider
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Well, the guy is an idiot for buying a Cybertruck in the first place.
I have no idea why it costs him $73. First, he's at less than 5% charge which is usually unheard of, as a daily driver you get down to around 20% and then charge. I guess the Cybertruck battery is that much bigger?
In a Model Y, charging from 20% to 80% usually runs between $8-$15 depending on when you charge. It takes about 20 minutes. You can also just charge at home for cheaper, just set it to charge after midnight and get the better rates with your power company if available.
I imaging filling a gas tank for a truck like a Ford F-150 has to be $100 or so.
Mizake
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I rarely ever use outside charging. My car is plugged in at home at a nominal cost - my electric bill hasn't gone up appreciably since I started driving electric....my bill went from something like $200/mo to $220/mo. It has a range of 230 miles standard, which means for every day driving by the time I get home and plug in, it's at full charge again the next day. Most people with EVs, especially Teslas, do the same I imagine.
The only time I need to use outside charging is when I go farther away, like to Vegas or up north. Then I use the chargers, and it's super easy in a Tesla because it's incorporated into the mapping system. Not to mention Tesla has the fast chargers which a lot of other companies do not. So it's not too much of a hassle. The cost is also less than if I had used an ICE.
This is the problem I think with all the other non-Tesla EV companies. They do not have a charging network. So if you buy one of their cars, you can't really go anywhere outside your town, at least not conveniently.
Palum
what Suineg set it to
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They made steam powered cars too, you can fab one today if you wanted. It doesn't make it practical. Reality is the country doesn't possess the infrastructure to support EVs for mass market, and it isn't in a hurry to build it. So they're toys for people with specific narrow use cases or who don't value time.
Lanx
<Prior Amod>
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Lanx
<Prior Amod>
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it's the same reason all my mag lights for home are battery driven, sure theyre also rechargable batteries but i can swap em out in a flash if i pick up flash light and it's dead, rather than plugging in to charge when i need it.
Control
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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This is always true for new tech though. If the new tech is good enough, the rest will catch up. If not
Mizake
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Tesla is also charging a premium and a membership for non-Tesla cars to use their charging network.
So I imagine for some of these other EV owners like Ford, GM....when they find out how expensive charging is going to be? Yeah, they are going to end up like those in the study
Haus
mentioned....they are going to switch back to ICE cars.There are two main advantages to owning EVs I can think of right off the bat: 1) lower maintenance costs (no need for things like oil changes), and 2) lower fuel costs. If the cost of charging matches the cost of filling up with petrol, then there is no advantage really, and yes, you probably are better off buying an ICE car.
Now, I have no doubt that once EV gets wide adoption, the price of electricity is going to shoot through the roof and probably equal or exceed the cost of petrol. Until then, the cost for me to charge my car is minuscule compared to the cost of filling up one of my ICE cars. It used to be the upfront cost of owning an EV was high ($80-100k+ to get in with 1st gen Tesla S and X), but now the model 3 and Y are comparable in cost to ICE cars. So really you save money overall driving electric atm, at least that has been my experience.
ToeMissile
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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2019 Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus
57,650 miles
Midnight Silver Metallic
‘Maintenance’ as in needs or more like history?
Needs: a couple small scratch/scuffs, rims with a bit of curb rash, tires coming up on needing to be replaced.
History: There was a bushing or somewhere in the suspension about a month ago that was just about completely busted. It's apparently a known issue w/ this model year. Other than that the only thing we had to do was replace tires and 1 recall about a wire harness that could get pinched when opening/closing the trunk?
Burren
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Cad
scientia potentia est
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You don't charge to 100% at superchargers, you use superchargers to go up to 50-60% to get where you're going (and this takes 15 minutes or so since charging slows down dramatically after 50% and slows to a trickle over 80%) and then charge at your destination if needed.
Also that 15 minutes costs about $5-6 at a normal supercharger, sitting there for 90 minutes is stupid and this person was probably just trying to ragebait people.
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Control
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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So the S has been out for over a decade now, do you know what total maintenance looks like long term compared to an equivalent ice? It seems like the evs (well, mostly Tesla) should have a pretty big advantage without all of the random expensive shit that can go wrong with an ice, but I haven't checked into it at all. Doubly so considering how hard it can be to get people to work on anything these days.
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Yeah, this is super evident in Texas. Where we are perpetually being told that our power grid is a delicate and fragile flower and we must protect it by not overusing it, and keep our houses set to temps that would be best suited to a lizard in the summer.... But then we also need to start buying EVs. I know for a fact the street I'm on doesn't have near the amperage rated in the overhead electrical wiring going down the alley to even support HALF the houses on my street having an EV charger.... Apparently they would have to replace a large number of the distribution transformers, and the houses will in many cases have to be upgraded from 100a to 200a service.
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