Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

Is this F2P yet?

Even though I'm 50 I'm still not sure how I feel about WildStar, despite not putting much effort getting to the raid phase. I think part of it is that I picked Technologist for a reason but it'll be another MONTH before they get it to the same stage as the other tradeskills (read: research).

I guess my major issue that's putting me off here is, ironically enough, their lack of urgency for some things. Granted, this was kind of an issue for FF14 as well (hence the irony, for me). Maybe I'm just that impatient these days.

Nevergone_sl said:

I blame the lack of competency with dungeon running on the lack of rewards for dungeon running while leveling. The reason so many people find them difficult is because the required tactics for completing dungeons aren't introduced tomostplayers until they reach 50 and start seriously doing the content.

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SWTOR made this same mistake, the storyline for the dungeons was completely separate and optional to the main leveling storyline. You hit max level and had no skills to make a group, you felt like you were outclasses and inexperienced. TSW had this problem as well, the 'two games' idea of solo single player fuck fest for 50 levels then forced grouping at the end. You're not prepared, you have no skills for it, your spec and build are not right for it, etc. You just quit.

FF14:ARR did a much better job imo in forcing everyone to go through each dungeon at least once as part of doing their story content. The grouping and community there was much better than in the more recent on rails mmos. I remember doing the primal fights in a pug after hearing nightmares and then having my group actually buckle down and come together to learn the strategy and beat it. The only reason we were there is because we were forced to be and I really don't understand games that pretend there isn't forced grouping, but really just hide it behind max level. You're not doing your players or game a service.

I understand some people don't keep up with beta MMOs until they get an invite or whatever, I'm the same way. I also get that some people just like leveling and playing the free month. Nothing is wrong with that. But if you came into this game expecting anything except heavy raiding and pvp focused content, you dun goofed.

Its something about the dungeons, to me. I blame myself for sucking, but in hindsight - I only ran Stormtalons Lair maybe 5..6? times. When I was carried 2 out of those 6 times, I enjoyed the dungeon. But learning them is brutal, doing a pug with them makes it even worse, and even if you have the gods of RNG on your side.. that gear only helps in DPS cause you really cant survive very long if you're fucking up. (To which RNG wasnt. Every epic that I did want that dropped in Adventures, I lost the roll). The lack of competency because mechanics werent introduced until the end is spot on as well. If you were one of the people to make it to 50, like myself, you almost automatically knew who played beta to max level based on how they did encounters.

First two times I did STL was with a pug, which lasted hours each, and no one in the entire party knew to interrupt the mobs, or bosses, much less when. After I ran with Voldeth those two times, that 5th time I did another pug and was the only one interrupting. I politely encourage them to interrupt at certain times, and some people actually listen. But the interrupts arent happening routinely, and since they just learned when to use their interrupts - they arent using them in a pattern. Another 3-4 hours of sucking in that dungeon, get to ST himself, wipe a couple more times and people give up. Rinse and repeat the next night, and basically the same damn thing happened. Did a different dungeon (the beach one) and the first boss killed that pug group in seconds. Literally, it was like 15 seconds into the fight and we were already dead. The group promptly fell apart. --- That broke the camels back so to speak. I didnt want to continue to bash my head in night after night. Add into that situation that Wildstar hates my computer configuration so I would hitch during some fights and I just didnt want to play anymore.

If I didnt hate leveling up to 50 so badly in this game I would have rerolled from my Warrior and chose a range DPS. Hindsight I guess, but whatever. Ive followed the game and I know theyve made changes, but the main problem still exists and what theyve done is basically a bandaid imo.

Honestly the dungeons aren't that hard. People just need to learn how to do an interrupt cycle and suddenly the first three dungeons are pretty much trivial. Once that skill trickles down to the masses(it already has to some extent in my experience) they will find that the impossible dungeons are now imminently doable. I would say post the STL and KV changes(to Drokk and ST himself) those are both exceptionally easy instances. Skullcano is still rough because Mordecai takes a ton of time if you don't jump on the ledge and cheese him and there's a long run back if you wipe. Swordmaiden is hell if your group can't interrupt, or your tank doesn't know how to use cooldowns properly on Ondu.

Reading your post....Tugga in Skullcano is literally just an interrupt check. They should make him a level 25 mob and require all players to PUG him successfully before dinging 26. He's also imminently farmable and drops the best weapon attachment in the game for most classes. Stormtalon is stupid easy with the changes, just stand on his ass, follow the tank when he kites, and don't get cleaved/stand in red. When he runs to the middle, you follow him so the knockback doesn't knock you into red.

I was actually pleasantly surprised the last time I pugged anything. It was STL and we got to ST himself in time for silver with me pretty much doing 80% of the interrupting as the tank. They stayed out of red and they hit the second interrupt most of the time. Then of course on ST someone died early, they votekicked him, and it all went to shit, but still....it's progress.

Nevergone_sl said:

The reason so many people find them difficult is because the required tactics for completing dungeons aren't introduced tomostplayers until they reach 50 and start seriously doing the content.

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Disagree with this part. What was all that shucking and dodging you did from level 15 on then?

Why did all the mobs (not just bosses) have telegraphs where in most games it'sonlythe bosses/minibosses that do that? What's the deal with the 'moment of opportunities' on the mob's cast bar that told morons "Hey, now would be a good time to interrupt that thing"? My gripes about WildStar are legion but preparing people for dungeons and adventures certainly wasn't one of them. They did that expertly imo. It's not Carbine's fault that you still had idiots who were at 50 and didn't know how to use or even put interrupts on their hotbars, let alone one or to constantly keep moving (unless you were an Esper).

The reward thing I definitely agree with. The risk/reward factor for most casuals won't be worth it. 1-4 hours in Adventures or Dungeons with the tables they had up was horrendous. With a competent team they were worth it, but the level of common player simply isn't up to par with what the content is, and may never be.

Fans say they like it like that, but I'm not so sure what happens when the casuals realize it.

Nevergone_sl said:

The normal enemies outside of dungeons that have telegraphed abilities aren't comparable to what you face in dungeons. You can face-tank the majority of content while soloing, but if you try that under normal circumstances in a dungeon - your group is going to wipe. Outside of dungeons, there is very little emphasis on creating MoOs or dodging everything you can. Obviously I'm not saying those tactics aren't beneficial, but they're not required and most people will do the bare minimum to survive and churn through content as easily as they can while leveling.

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The mobs outside aren'tsupposedto be comparable from a damage standpoint, that'd be stupid. It's just there as a gating mechanism to introduce new players to what they'll see (wait for it)laterin a dungeon or against harder open world mobs. Face tanking is not the proper way for most WStar classes to play, but people do it because it's the most expedient because they know they'll sit down and eat some shit afterwards...kind of like how walls aren't supposed to be skirted in dungeons but people do that anyways.

Meatbags will always seek the path of least resistance. You cannot blame Carbine for things humans actively seek out to circumvent. Again, most other mmos don't have regular mobs reinforcing that system over and over (HEY... MOVE!) while you level other than maybe a ! on a mob's head saying it's going to do.. something. If anything, most other mmo's do what you just described no matter what your class is... sit there and eat the fireball or the cleave.. no dodging allowed. WStar mobs tell youexactlywhat they are going to do/where,.. just like dungeon bosses.

The mechanics ARE there. They are in plain site, but if I choose to stand in the fire at level 15 because I know the mob won't kill me, I'm sort of a dumbass because at level 30, 40... I can't keep doing that or I'm dead (most classes). No way an Esper is going to sit there and eat flak while fighting but and Engie tank will. Stalkers don't even have to worry about that because it's stealth, stun, kill, stun, kill everything as fast as they can, which isexactlywhat a Stalker is supposed to do in a dungeon.

For average casual players, those mechanics trash mobs outside (and inside) dungeons do are necessary to pay attention to. People on this forum are not the average casual gamer as much as we sometimes think we are. This is a bubble. For you and others to keep repeating "You know, the content/dungeons in WStar aren't really that hard" or "You can just sit in stuff" is not representative of the sheeple, yet each and every game that launches we keep thinking that our play is somehow relevant to their play.

When you have people on this forum that have been gaming for years that not only know the ins/outs of MMO philosophy but also MAKE games saying "Yeah, WStar is challenging" that means "This shit is ridiculously stupid for the typical casual".

I wish my GF would display a red circle when she's about to do something disasterous.

Vitality_sl said:

I wish my GF would display a red circle when she's about to do something disasterous.

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Grats! When is she due?

Abefroman_sl said:

Grats! When is she due?

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He kicked during the attack of opportunity - no worries.

Nevergone_sl said:

The "fans" that agree with the way risk v. reward is currently implemented are a destructive element within the player community. We're already seeing what happens when casuals start understanding how the game is structured - they leave. If the remaining playerbase was actually interested in the long term health of the game, they would be clamoring for change; but frankly they're myopic baboons that are repeating the Carbine line of "hardcore onry!!"

I will be sadistically validated when this game goes F2P and takes other stopgap measures to retain players based on Carbine listening to those idiots and adhering to their own stubborn policies.

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Agree 100 percent.

Launching without multiple raid difficulties in the current climate is poor judgment IMO

Seananigans_sl said:

Fuck difficulty sliders. In the ass. No lube.

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Oh I hate it too, trust me... But current player values/expectations pretty much demand it.

The amount of Credd they're selling at a net profit of $5 is probably a shit ton more than people understand.

Xevy_sl said:

The amount of Credd they're selling at a net profit of $5 is probably a shit ton more than people understand.

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Yeah, but the people who are buying it with real money are the ones who are leaving the game. Joe Casual isn't going to keep buying plat at $20 a pop when he realizes it makes fuck all difference and he's hit a brick wall. CREDD will definitely extend the games life, but I don't think it's going to last forever.

Well, it only took me two months, but I finally hit 50 on a character.

Rafterman_sl said:

Yeah, but the people who are buying it with real money are the ones who are leaving the game. Joe Casual isn't going to keep buying plat at $20 a pop when he realizes it makes fuck all difference and he's hit a brick wall. CREDD will definitely extend the games life, but I don't think it's going to last forever.

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A lot of it will just depend on what the exchange rate does. There are always going to be people that want to buy gold, and they'll only buy it with CREDD instead of through third party gold-sellers if the exchange rate remains competitive. Supply and demand will certainly come into play, because the less people that are buying CREDD, the higher it will drive the price in-game. And really, if the market does dry up, going F2P would definitely reinvigorate it. It's a system that will mesh very well with that.