Windows 8

Yeah, it makes absolutely no sense to me that the operating system would have a major bearing in the stability of the hardware while overclocked.

Basically the performance gains I was expecting out of 8.1 were offset by having to drop my processor back down by 600mhz. Oh well, at least 8.1 boots really fast! lol

The OS, by design, interacts with the hardware so the software doesn't have to. I don't know for certain, so I am just going to guess that the problems come from the way Win8 handles voltage regulation, as managing power use is one of the major functions of any OS. It is designed to take advantage of the new power states on Haswell and to also be super efficient on laptops, so I would assume that the, under the hood, voltage regulation just works a little differently.

Denaut_sl said:

The OS, by design, interacts with the hardware so the software doesn't have to. I don't know for certain, so I am just going to guess that the problems come from the way Win8 handles voltage regulation, as managing power use is one of the major functions of any OS. It is designed to take advantage of the new power states on Haswell and to also be super efficient on laptops, so I would assume that the, under the hood, voltage regulation just works a little differently.

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Voltage regulation is controlled via the motherboard and BIOS. True the Intel CPUs can enter lower power states and throttle voltage down under light load. (Intel SpeedStep / EIST) However, every single overclocker I know turns these BIOS options off as it greatly affects stability. You wouldnt want something OC'd a GHz or more to suddenly start self regulating power / BCLK.

SpeedStep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jysin_sl said:

Voltage regulation is controlled via the motherboard and BIOS. True the Intel CPUs can enter lower power states and throttle voltage down under light load. (Intel SpeedStep / EIST) However, every single overclocker I know turns these BIOS options off as it greatly affects stability. You wouldnt want something OC'd a GHz or more to suddenly start self regulating power / BCLK.

SpeedStep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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My point was that the OS is intimately involved in power regulation, and can clock up/down the processor for example (turbo), put things to sleep, wake things up, and so on. I should have said "the way the OS talks to the hardware" but I shorthanded it to voltage regulation which technically is handled by the firmware but it does take instructions from and react to the OS. There could be differences in the way Win 8 talks to the hardware about power usage than Win 7 to be more efficient and to take advantage of more advanced power features especially when it comes to battery operated devices. This makes a lot of sense from the OS perspective.

I have a 2600k @ 4.8ghz using 8.1 and I have c1e and EIST enabled. I'm not aware of any i7 guide that recommends turning them off.

You're just wasting power and generating extra heat by turning them off.

If you upgrade to 8.1 and have to down clock it means your clock was never really stable.

If you upgrade to 8.1 and have to down clock it means your clock was never really stable.

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I love W8.1 but this is a stupid comment.

If you have a 4.5 OC on your computer which is running Windows 7 and you can run all the stress tests (Prime, Furmark, etc) without fail then of course it is stable... just because upgrading to Windows 8/8.1 fucks something up doesn't mean the OC isn't stable. What kind of dumb statement is that?

Also regarding EIST, C1E, C3, and C6/C7: you want those disabled if you're looking to achieve the highest possible clock on a CPU. Period. Will you consume more power? Yes. Will it generate higher temps at idle vs. throttling the CPU? Yes, but you likely won't get a higher stable clock with them on - that'll vary depending on your luck though. Sometimes it has an effect sometimes not.

I'd assume most people's windows 7 overclocks aren't entirely stable either. Although every person's definition of stable differs. I for one let Prime 95 run for 24 hours straight and do a lot of other things before I'm satisfied but I know some people who only run Prime for 30 minutes or even others who just play their favorite games and never stability test.

If you can't even have C1E and EIST enabled allowing the voltage/multi to drop at idle without stability issues I'd say you have more problems than just Windows 8.1.

jeydax_sl said:

C3, and C6/C7: you want those disabled

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I agree there but I never disable EIST and C1E, it's pointless. Like I said I have a 2600k @ 4.8Ghz with HT, EIST and C1E enabled all under 8.1 and I have no issues at all.

Edit: Neg me more. I'm trying to get to -100. Just because you're wrong about overclocking doesn't mean you should get pissy, it means you should learn from me since I know what the fuck I'm doing.

I ran my i5 3570k at 4.6 ghz for 1 full year without a single crash(and maybe like 10-15 reboots total during that time, it stayed on 24/7) under Win 7, I'd say that was pretty stable.

Going to jack around with adjusting my RAM voltage this weekend to see if I can get that OC back under Win 8

Gaige_sl said:

I'd assume most people's windows 7 overclocks aren't entirely stable either. Although every person's definition of stable differs. I for one let Prime 95 run for 24 hours straight and do a lot of other things before I'm satisfied but I know some people who only run Prime for 30 minutes or even others who just play their favorite games and never stability test.

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This I completely agree with. There are a lot of people who do not thoroughly test at all and then wonder when they have odd app crashes and behaviors.

Gaige_sl said:

If you can't even have C1E and EIST enabled allowing the voltage/multi to drop at idle without stability issues I'd say you have more problems than just Windows 8.1.

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This is just flat out wrong. Just because a system runs flawless at a high OC (voltage / multi increase) does NOT mean it will be stable when EIST kicks in and drops that voltage / multi back down.

Let me try and give an example: (Numbers for simplicity sake)

Stock:
3.5GHz 1.35vCore (full speed)
2.5GHz 0.9vCore (EIST power save running)

OC:
4.5GHz 1.42vCore (full speed)
3.5GHz 0.97vCore (EIST power save running)

I know that is hugely oversimplified, but as you can see the discrepancy with the operating voltages at 3.5GHz canpossiblycause stability issues in the OC example. Yes, I am absolutely certain EIST can operate on SOME overclocked systems with reliability. However, in many cases it will cause problems dropping the voltage because the target frequency is going to be inherently higher already (even with EIST active) requiring higher voltages due to the OC.

If EIST drops this 3.5GHz system to 2.5GHz under EIST, its not going to drop to that same low clock rate while overclocked. The power needs are going to be higher and the EIST calculations are no where near accurate enough to reliably use it. It's never recommended in ANY OC sites I have ever seen.

2nd Gen Intel® Core?"? Processor Family Desktop Datasheet, Vol. 1(Page 47)

It always drops to the same speed though, 1.6ghz at roughly .9 vcore.

Found a digital download upgrade for 8.1 for $79.99. Just got done upgrading and site is legit. Takes up to a day to get your key though. That's the cheapest I can find now. can only upgrade from windows 7.
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Upgrade Download - SnaggStuff.com - Microsoft Windows 8

Gaige_sl said:

I'd assume most people's windows 7 overclocks aren't entirely stable either. Although every person's definition of stable differs. I for one let Prime 95 run for 24 hours straight and do a lot of other things before I'm satisfied but I know some people who only run Prime for 30 minutes or even others who just play their favorite games and never stability test.

If you can't even have C1E and EIST enabled allowing the voltage/multi to drop at idle without stability issues I'd say you have more problems than just Windows 8.1.



I agree there but I never disable EIST and C1E, it's pointless. Like I said I have a 2600k @ 4.8Ghz with HT, EIST and C1E enabled all under 8.1 and I have no issues at all.

Edit: Neg me more. I'm trying to get to -100. Just because you're wrong about overclocking doesn't mean you should get pissy, it means you should learn from me since I know what the fuck I'm doing.

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I neg'd you because what you posted was fucking moronic and wrong. While I agree running Prime95 and other tests for at least 24 hours constitutes a stable overclock it is pretty clear joeboo isn't one of those fucktards that runs a test for an hour and says LOLSTABLE OVERCLOCK. You're also still wrong about EIST and C1E. If you want the fastest clock possible you disable those ALONG WITH C3 and C6/C7 regardless of how little of an effect it may have. And you're seriously bragging about overclocking a 2600k? Really? That alone is an indication of how dumb you are.

Abefroman_sl said:

Found a digital download upgrade for 8.1 for $79.99. Just got done upgrading and site is legit. Takes up to a day to get your key though. That's the cheapest I can find now. can only upgrade from windows 7.
Microsoft Windows 8.1 Upgrade Download - SnaggStuff.com - Microsoft Windows 8

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Side note for people looking to buy Windows 8, hop onhttp://www.reddit.com/softwareswapyou can typically find W8 keys for $10-15 there. I was VERY wary of buying one there but got one with no issue for $10 here:Microsoft Product Keys - Windows, Office, and More! - NEW STOCK! : softwareswap

I pm'd the guy to confirm, sent him the money and he sent the key in the span of about 3 minutes. Tested it and it is working fine. Worth $10 imo.

jeydax_sl said:

And you're seriously bragging about overclocking a 2600k? Really? That alone is an indication of how dumb you are.

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No, I'm saying if I can run my 2600k @ 4.8Ghz with C1E and EIST under 8.1 then anyone can. Turning them off is stupid and makes you miss out on a ton of the benefits of running not only the chip but also 8.1.

While all silicon is different and not every 2600k is guaranteed to hit 4.8Ghz they should all be OC'able with C1E/EIST if done right.

The difference is he has an Ivy Bridge chip. Most people can OC a 2600k (hell even an idiot like you did) that high because the IHS is soldered onto the cores. Ivy Bridge (and Haswell) don't have their IHS soldered on - they're glued quite shittily with shitty paste under near them. A lot of people who don't delid their Ivy Bridge/Haswells are lucky to get even 4.5 OC's out of their chips. joeboo has an Ivy Bridge chip. It isn't quite as bad as Haswell in terms of heat/the ability to overclock but it is a hell of a lot worse on a non-delidded chip than Sandy Bridge is.

At any rate, enabling C1E and EIST isn't bad - they are good pieces of technology and most people should keep them enabled. But if you don't give a crap about energy savings or chip longevity (over decades I'm talking, not a few years), and you want to achieve the highest overclock possible in most cases disabling C1E and EIST along with the other states is just removing another possible variable of why an OC might crash.

I'm done on this topic because you're talking apples and oranges when discussing SandyBridge/IB/Haswell overclocking. And you're wrong either way - it is just a magnified problem on IV/Haswell.

Abefroman_sl said:

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This is the exact same face I made.

I bought it for me for $70 then got it for my fiance for $10.

Well gonna build a new computer soon so I'm gonna need another key anyway. Least I didn't pay M$ 129.99 on their fucking shitty store for it.

jeydax_sl said:

The difference is he has an Ivy Bridge chip. Most people can OC a 2600k (hell even an idiot like you did) that high because the IHS is soldered onto the cores. Ivy Bridge (and Haswell) don't have their IHS soldered on - they're glued quite shittily with shitty paste under near them. A lot of people who don't delid their Ivy Bridge/Haswells are lucky to get even 4.5 OC's out of their chips.

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Which I'm more than aware of HOWEVER none of that has shit to do with overclocking with C1E/EIST enabled.