- 21,141
- 80,871
There is nothing that I "can get" walking from WPL to Naxx. I want to get to the raid and get in.
World of Warcraft: Classic
- Thread starter Tmac
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Burren
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,363
- 5,888
Bad game design led you people not interacting with other players. Bad game design led to people WANTING to avoid the world and just to a place, or click a button and instantly pop into a dungeon/raid.
However, your choice of play style makes it sound like an MMORPG isn't the kind of game you want to play.
- 2
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 6,978
- 4,464
Just get the warlocks to summon you? They really love doing that, btw. Especially when it's every single raid.
- 1
- 26,236
- 39,956
Part of the mmorpg is struggling, taking time, after all its all a time sink in the end, but when you get that reward at the end it feels that much better, because of that work and timesink. If youre just handed reward willy nilly without that time sink and work it feels empty. Like that sense of, yeah motherfucker, I worked for that shit, and now I have it. Same like grinding on some raid in current wow for 300 wipes before you finally beat it. If you did it on your first or second try would you feel that same sense of accomplishment?
I know this shit has been argued on these forums forever and there is 2 schools of thought, but IMO this has been the core tenant of the mmorpg since forever. Shit, even vanilla wow got rid of most of that timesink from EQ, but even then shit still took time, took you building a community of buds to do shit with, etc.... Its all a a part of the whole experience of mmorpgs. Like getting your first 50 in EQ, that was an achievement itself. Even in WoW vanilla it was a thing, after spending the 10 days played to get there.
I know this shit has been argued on these forums forever and there is 2 schools of thought, but IMO this has been the core tenant of the mmorpg since forever. Shit, even vanilla wow got rid of most of that timesink from EQ, but even then shit still took time, took you building a community of buds to do shit with, etc.... Its all a a part of the whole experience of mmorpgs. Like getting your first 50 in EQ, that was an achievement itself. Even in WoW vanilla it was a thing, after spending the 10 days played to get there.
- 3
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,732
- 109,063
Travel time is a known slippery slope. You make one concession, then two, then three then several years later you're in BFA and it's retardation. Yes travel time needs some conveniences, portals, flightmasters, whistles, one-off port scrolls and reputation trinkets are great. But nullifying all zone design with the axiomatic hammer of personal flight is inherently terrible design.
The world needs to be dangerous and you need to want to be out in it doing shit. It's not really an MMO if that's not there.
The world needs to be dangerous and you need to want to be out in it doing shit. It's not really an MMO if that's not there.
- 5
- 1
karma
Molten Core Raider
- 473
- 587
I disagree, as I mentioned, I very much want to play with other people, In fact, I normally ONLY play if I can play with other people, my wife, my son, guildmates, and a few friends. Yes, I met some of those people through the game, but I didnt meet them running around the world trying to get my quests done. I met them in dungeons, and raids, I met them doing GROUP content. not in single player travel=immersion time sync content. I met them through friends while looking for more people to do group content with.
I always laugh at the people who claim that those of us who like flying just want to avoid people and MMO's arent for us. Most of us want to play with people, most of us want persistent worlds that evolve, change and grow. Most of us just dont enjoy the mini content that is moving from one place to another.
Now I wont disagree that bad game design might be the reason we are in the situation we are in, but flying didnt cause the game to go in the direction it did. As far as bad design being the reason people want to avoid the world, maybe its because there are aspects outside the world some of us do enjoy? Dungeons, raids etc? I just dont see travel adding anything useful to the game really. I understand I am in the minority, but its pretty much how I feel, I would rather spend the time in my MMO with the multiplayer aspect of it. Now, add more open world group content besides wham bam thank you ma'am world bosses, and well, I would spend more time in the world, and enjoy it.
- 26,236
- 39,956
So in esscense you just want a lobby game where youre ported to all the good stuff, then rinse and repeat. I get it, but again, this is not a mmorpg anymore. Might as well be a group COD game but with mages and warriors and dragons instead of soldiers with guns and brown ememies.
karma
Molten Core Raider
- 473
- 587
Having said that, (and I dont disagree, if the world was dangerous, it would be fun) if just the process of traveling to some dungeons or other places was dangerous, like "the group travels from one point to the other together, cause you might die on the way?" dangerous, then travel becomes part of the game. Going certain places required friend(s) or a caravan? Shitt, now we are talking.
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,732
- 109,063
You really need to think of it as a design decision rather than a just a personal convenience. You have all the examples you need of what personal flight does to the game world looking at retail WOW. It's dead and empty and flight is a major part of that.
- 1
karma
Molten Core Raider
- 473
- 587
Maybe I am missunderstanding MMORPG? Massive, as in large sprawling world with lots of things to do? Multiplayer, I addressed this? I think? Online, well, that doesnt need explanation, Roleplaying, meh, I dont really pretend to be a cow, but hey, it takes all kinds. Game, well, it is that indeed!
Seems like it is still an MMORPG to me?
- 26,236
- 39,956
another thing they did is literally made you godmode in the open world. I was amazed when I played a little after resubbing to get into beta. My hunter was 2 shotting ememies. You could get into a whole pack of baddies and still come out 1/2 health with bags filled with lewts. In vanilla you get your shit pushed in with 1 add, 2 youre dead, better start running. Or learn how to pull.
- 2
- 2
Burren
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,363
- 5,888
You're not wrong about any of those definitions. Honestly, you aren't wrong about your preferences either, because we all have our own idea of fun. But, for a lot of us, the evolution of the game from Vanilla to BFA has made "us" feel like it's no longer a multiplayer game with adventure and danger. It's a lobby that allows us to click a button and get to somewhere instantly and it is that today because of how the game evolved from the onset, starting with flying. Flying was the first convenience/compromise that led to more and more conveniences and compromises that led to so many people feeling like the game lost its way to cater to a player base that just wanted instant gratification.
- 2
- 26,236
- 39,956
Yeah im not saying hes wrong either. Its all a matter of preference. For instance I tried some P99 one time like a year ago, and that shit was just too fucking much. (even though I played EQ back in 2000) Got to like lv 10 with my enchanter, decided to run to some other place, got attacked by some shit that was 10 levels higher than me, died running around in some forest somewhere and I lost my fucking corpse that had all my shit on it. Then died another 5 times trying to find it all nekkid, ended up level 8 or some shit. Logged off and never logged back in.
But there is a nice place inbetween those two, which is neither too punishing, but not easy either.
But there is a nice place inbetween those two, which is neither too punishing, but not easy either.
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
- 38,275
- 15,107
These arguments are kind of void though. Every expansion in recent years has had flying disabled until like a year after launch, after a person completed Pathfinder (almost every quest in each zone), and after the content has been traversed very thoroughly.
- 1
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,732
- 109,063
Yeah those 5 player recommended quests that are still even in BFA? That's just flavor text now, you can solo them on basically any class lol.
- 51,539
- 302,561
You know what though if there was ever an opportunity for Brad "High All The Time" McQuaid to get some funding for his vaporware now would be the fucking time. Right now you could show investors that there is a market for an old style more RPG centric MMORPG to be released and the audience in eating it up. Then again you would probably be better setting your money on fire.
- 1
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,732
- 109,063
To this point it is also a strange evolution of gameplay in WOW/newer MMO's where your loop is to 1.) Hangout in the capital city -> 2.) go to dungeon or quest or whatever -> 3.) Return to capital city.
I guess this started way back when EQ introduced the Plane of Knowledge more or less too but ideally you want to be hanging around the area for leveling, reputation stuff, whatever and the dungeon you want is right there along with the players of your level. Before that you just hung out around the dungeon and most wouldn't have any reason to return to the capitals most of the time. Or would go long periods of time before returning.