World of Warcraft: Classic

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BoozeCube

BoozeCube

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You know as dumb as it sounds and as much fun people are having on the Beta I honestly think if they added a few more phases for the leveling process like capping people at 30,40,50,60 for like 2-3 weeks for each phase would actually be a cool thing.
 
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Creslin

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The other major change they made was taking raid size down to 25, that forced guiilds to cull a lot of the mom and pop raiders, people forget in classic and Eq before that raiding was a more social game about who could make the time commitment and way less about who was actually good at the game. In TBC that started the slow shift to true end game raiding being restricted to players who were good because it was no longer possible to carry people to the extent you could in classic. That was a slippery slope too with devs being overly concerned with how fast the top guild could clear something and forgetting that really doesn’t matter cause they aren’t the core customer.

Also expansion gear resets being hard resets was always a terrible idea and now they have kicked it up to basically a gear reset every tier. The original formula in classic of slow raid zone obsolescence was best, MC wasn’t rewlly required by fresh 60s by the time Naxx openned but you couldn’t skip prior tiers completely, that was the formula they used up through wrath.
 
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BoozeCube

BoozeCube

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Creslin said:
The other major change they made was taking raid size down to 25, that forced guiilds to cull a lot of the mom and pop raiders, people forget in classic and Eq before that raiding was a more social game about who could make the time commitment and way less about who was actually good at the game. In TBC that started the slow shift to true end game raiding being restricted to players who were good because it was no longer possible to carry people to the extent you could in classic. That was a slippery slope too with devs being overly concerned with how fast the top guild could clear something and forgetting that really doesn’t matter cause they aren’t the core customer.

Also expansion gear resets being hard resets was always a terrible idea and now they have kicked it up to basically a gear reset every tier. The original formula in classic of slow raid zone obsolescence was best, MC wasn’t rewlly required by fresh 60s by the time Naxx opened but you couldn’t skip prior tiers completely
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In one of the dev videos linked above they touch on that a little bit. It was interesting because he brought up the design philosophy changing so much that it killed the game for many players. You start off back then with meaningful 5 man dungeon experiences and you also had 40 man raids which during Vanilla they never saw raiding as the only goal and the only thing to do in game which is why there is so much all over. Still you have 40 man raiding as a standard people have built up this guild around this number of players then boom TBC Kharazhan 10 man fuck you, now max raids are 25 well sorry 15 of you guys we have been playing with for the last few years have to fuck off and die. Then Wrath comes out now we have 10 mans and 25 mans but the loot is slightly worse on 10 man, plus we cause retarded burnout with people who feel the need to min/max doing 10N/H 25N/H so clearing that instance 4 times a week. Cata we are still 10-25 Normal and Heroic but this time the gear is the same so people settled on raid sizes they were happy with some smaller guilds could be 10 man only. Anyways now we have Flex raids, Mythic set sizes ect..., the ever shifting raid size and numbers as well as the importance of content that doesn't fall in that small window has probably been one of the leading contributors to people quiting this game.

So much of an MMORPG's enjoyment is an ever persistent world and meeting people making friends, sharing experiences with others. When the game shifts to far in one direction where it breaks up that dynamic is when people leave. I would bet at least back in the older expansions a guild breaking up led to more sub losses than anything else. Sure some might find another group to run with but that familiarity and comradery is really what sets this genre of games apart from others. and again I think that is one of the mistakes of trying to make raiding ball bustingly difficult like they do with current Mythic raids is all it does is cause more splits and divides in guilds. MMORPG's pull a lot of inspiration from old table top D&D type of enviornments and imagine playing a game like D&D and telling Steve listen here faggot you blow to much dick to raid with us fuck off, yet in retail you are forced to do this if you want to complete the highest of encounters. Meanwhile the rest of it is so easy that it all can be pugged.
 
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TJT

TJT

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Yeah I'll be playing Alliance for the first time ever and since I will be generally busy will be relatively casual about it. DGAF son its going to be a good time.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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Quineloe said:
There's six world bosses in 1.12.

That concept can easily be expanded on. The new zones also already exist. Gilneas and so forth. Just make them world boss areas.
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More warlocks being forced to summon people. Do you remember having to summon an entire raid to Kazack before soul shard bags existed and begging people to pull shit back to you that gives XP so you can create more shards (which used to be 1 per mob)? Because I sure do. No one wants to travel long ass distances if they don't have to, but what ends up happening is their convenience is subsidized by the poor sods that make that possible.

Plus outdoor mobs were easily trolled, which fucks PvE servers. "lol PVE LOLLLL" some might say. Fuck them, PVE makes up the majority of servers, you can't be idiotic with your anti-zerg design and let "oh shit, I didnt think you were raiding" trolls cause the world boss to go into enrage mode, wasting everyone's time.
 
TJT

TJT

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Cybsled said:
More warlocks being forced to summon people. Do you remember having to summon an entire raid to Kazack before soul shard bags existed and begging people to pull shit back to you that gives XP so you can create more shards (which used to be 1 per mob)? Because I sure do. No one wants to travel long ass distances if they don't have to, but what ends up happening is their convenience is subsidized by the poor sods that make that possible.

Plus outdoor mobs were easily trolled, which fucks PvE servers. "lol PVE LOLLLL" some might say. Fuck them, PVE makes up the majority of servers, you can't be idiotic with your anti-zerg design and let "oh shit, I didnt think you were raiding" trolls cause the world boss to go into enrage mode, wasting everyone's time.
Click to expand...

Someone was deeply traumatized by his warlock experience.
 
Khane

Khane

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Who wouldn't be? Whoever designed vanilla Warlocks was a real piece of shit.
 
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Serpens

Serpens

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I think one of the big reasons the Classic design philosophy was lost was lack of new subscriber growth and Blizzard catering to altoholics. Nixxiom did a video comparing the Classic newbie experience to BFA's, with him shitting on BFA's of course.
The BFA version was introduced with Cataclysm and I'm pretty sure it was made very easy to complete due to the lack of newbies to level with and the desire of current subscribers to get their alts to max level ASAP.
 
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Cybsled

Cybsled

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sadris said:
Yeah warlocks got totally fucked in vanilla. Worse than druids and paladins
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Warlocks had it pretty rough

1) Free kills in PVP. The only defensive tool we had, fear, got nerfed in PVP because players didn't like that their free kill could make them run around helpless and actually stand a chance of fighting back. But rogues stunlocking you until dead was perfectly fine from Blizzard's PVP design philosophy. Derp.

2) Useless pets. You basically had imp out to give people more HP in raids, or you did a spec where you sacrificed your demon to boost your DPS. There were very few encounters where felhound, voidwalker, or succubus actually had a usage in a raid environment beyond being a voidlink sponge or the rare crowd control fights.

3) Useless specs. Lots of classes had to deal with this, but warlocks had it pretty bad. Demonology was pretty worthless outside a couple talents. Heavy destruction was also pretty worthless DPS wise early on, especially since bosses/mobs used to have elemental immunity, rendering all the fire based spells worthless.

4) Infernal and Doomguard was never worth the risk (since they would eventually break enslave and become immune to it and kill you) and had too long a cooldown in any event. Doomguard Russian Roulette was pretty lol, though. Too bad you could only do it once an hour.

5) Shard management. It went from 1 shard per mob that gives XP and no special bags, then they added special bags (the good ones were very expensive to make and hard to get drops), then much much later they added the multi-shards from a single drain. It was a pain in the ass because they didn't stack and you needed a fuckton for raids.

Killing yourself with hellfire was nice, though, because you didn't take durability loss. We'd always do that when a raid wipe was happening to avoid having to spend more money. Spam lifetap, hellfire, dead lol. Warlocks also did have lots of nice utility, which always made them useful to bring along. And high HP helped for the AoE fights so you could live longer.

Funny part is I originally never intended to be a warlock. When Tigole invited some of us to beta, hunters weren't in and for whatever reason, I thought hunters might be the most "monk like" (idk where I got that idea, at the time druids had feign death). So I figured I would play warlock since I could learn pet management on the class at the very least. I ended up liking a lot of their utility, so I ended up just sticking with warlock until they actually released monks in MoP.
 
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Tarisk

Tarisk

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Cybsled said:
Warlocks had it pretty rough

1) Free kills in PVP. The only defensive tool we had, fear, got nerfed in PVP because players didn't like that their free kill could make them run around helpless and actually stand a chance of fighting back. But rogues stunlocking you until dead was perfectly fine from Blizzard's PVP design philosophy. Derp.

2) Useless pets. You basically had imp out to give people more HP in raids, or you did a spec where you sacrificed your demon to boost your DPS. There were very few encounters where felhound, voidwalker, or succubus actually had a usage in a raid environment beyond being a voidlink sponge or the rare crowd control fights.

3) Useless specs. Lots of classes had to deal with this, but warlocks had it pretty bad. Demonology was pretty worthless outside a couple talents. Heavy destruction was also pretty worthless DPS wise early on, especially since bosses/mobs used to have elemental immunity, rendering all the fire based spells worthless.

4) Infernal and Doomguard was never worth the risk (since they would eventually break enslave and become immune to it and kill you) and had too long a cooldown in any event. Doomguard Russian Roulette was pretty lol, though. Too bad you could only do it once an hour.

5) Shard management. It went from 1 shard per mob that gives XP and no special bags, then they added special bags (the good ones were very expensive to make and hard to get drops), then much much later they added the multi-shards from a single drain. It was a pain in the ass because they didn't stack and you needed a fuckton for raids.

Killing yourself with hellfire was nice, though, because you didn't take durability loss. We'd always do that when a raid wipe was happening to avoid having to spend more money. Spam lifetap, hellfire, dead lol. Warlocks also did have lots of nice utility, which always made them useful to bring along. And high HP helped for the AoE fights so you could live longer.

Funny part is I originally never intended to be a warlock. When Tigole invited some of us to beta, hunters weren't in and for whatever reason, I thought hunters might be the most "monk like" (idk where I got that idea, at the time druids had feign death). So I figured I would play warlock since I could learn pet management on the class at the very least. I ended up liking a lot of their utility, so I ended up just sticking with warlock until they actually released monks in MoP.
Click to expand...

I think it should be illegal for you to play a character with feign. I'm still traumatized by your Kedge Keep pulls.
 
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mkopec

mkopec

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Welp got to lv 19 on northdale and I just cant do it anymore. Just too many people. Every quest area is camped to the max and people doing whatever it takes to tag mobs. Then ally faggots keep killing the quest and flight master in barrens to lol, so cant even hand in my shit to get to 20. I think ill go into live wow level up a dude and compare for science. Hopefully blizz solves this shit with their layer cakes when it comes to launch time.
 
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BoozeCube

BoozeCube

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mkopec said:
Welp got to lv 19 on northdale and I just cant do it anymore. Just too many people. Every quest area is camped to the max and people doing whatever it takes to tag mobs. Then ally faggots keep killing the quest and flight master in barrens to lol, so cant even hand in my shit to get to 20. I think ill go into live wow level up a dude and compare for science. Hopefully blizz solves this shit with their layer cakes when it comes to launch time.
Click to expand...

Have you tried grouping with people?
 
mkopec

mkopec

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YEs and yes and more yes. We even did a raid for one of the koliak leader fuckers, lol because there was like 12 fucking people there waiting for him.
 
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