Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
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WoD was logging in to raid and then sitting in your garrison the rest of the time. Then... To top it off... The last raid was 18 months before next expac
World of Warcraft: Current Year
- Thread starter hodj
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Dalien
Registered Hodor
- 2,201
- 2,055
Interesting thread about the current state of communication between devs and players:
Here's the text in case the tweets disappear:
TL;DR: Ever since the old guard left WoW and Ion's team was put in charge, the devs have turned into a bunch of condescending manchildren who don't care about your feedback.
Here's the text in case the tweets disappear:
I will no longer be silent. If you're curious about why I (and others) are cynical about the WoW team's feedback process, here's a thread about private avenues of feedback that some theorycrafters were/are offered — and why they haven’t made an ounce of difference in a long time
Around early/mid 2013, just before the release of the Throne of Thunder raid, I was invited to a private feedback forum for WoW theorycrafters. This was the first incarnation of the "private forums", which many have speculated about ever since.
In its initial stages, this forum was wonderful. Many of the most positive developments in both MoP and even the developmental stages of WoD were the result of the careful, thoughtful feedback that players on this forum provided.
It was also reciprocated with actual, candid discussion on the part of developers, the results of which were probably some of the strongest system and general game design that the game has seen.
Around the end of 2013, a key figure in WoW development (who also happened to be the brainchild behind the forums) left Blizzard. Slowly, but surely, everything began to change. Developer tones became more condescending. The obvious effort put in by players went ignored.
The majority of WoD was miserable for forum dwellers, but it was nothing compared to Legion. If there was ever a true “death” suffered by them, it occurred when the WoW dev team’s line of communication during the Legion Beta became nothing but insults, rudeness, and ignoring us.
It was a horrible experience. I alluded to what was going on somewhat in my final blogpost, but never went into full detail — largely out of respect for the person who had founded them, despite that person being long-gone for Blizzard. However, enough is enough.
The first incarnation of the private forums was deleted during Legion. It was then resurrected (and still exists) with a new crew of feedback givers with some overlap from the old, but continued in the same trend of developers essentially treating feedback givers like trash.
In addition, I’m told that there is also an influencers Discord, largely compromising of YouTube content creators and other “prominent” figures in the WoW community. In other words, the current forums are not the only semi-private line of communication the team has.
So when you read Twitter threads complaining about “the masses”, please understand that this team *does* have all the access they need to theorycrafters and players with a key stake in the game’s development. They simply choose to either ignore, insult, or belittle them.
Complaining about “the masses” is facetious. “The masses” have consisted of loud yelling by ignorant, uninformed players since Day 1 of Vanilla. That is the entire reason *behind* the genesis of the private forums and the influencer Discord.
Yet surprisingly “the masses” weren’t an issue in the past — probably because the team at the time actually understood that the best way to obtain good feedback was not by alienating and marginalising the actual rational voices of folks willing to put in the time/effort.
It took me a long time to take a step back and realise how incredibly fucked up it was that the WoW community consists of so many players (especially theorycrafters) that put in so much time and effort into improving the game with zero compensation. And many were happy to do so.
The truth is that it isn’t feedback that has suffered or changed. It is design. It is the state of a game whose system developers have proven themselves to be a bunch of manchildren with egos the size of mountains. Gaslighting your theorycrafter core won’t change that.
All of this (and more) were things I wish I'd included in my final blogpost, but that I refrained from doing out of respect for one person. If you’re reading this: I’m sorry if this damages our personal relationship. But, I can no longer be silent in the face of what’s happening
Judging by the 7 DMs I’ve already received thanking me for this thread, I guess it resonates. My suggestion? Please join me in speaking up, assuming it doesn’t put your safety or wellbeing in jeopardy. Many of you were right there with me, and saw most of what I did.
In case you were wondering what the tone of the private forums is like these days, here’s what someone with current access to them just DM’d me. Guess I’m not the only one who’s just about had it.
Here’s Exhibit 2. Same developer by the way, in case the tone didn’t make it abundantly clear.
Let me restate this again, just to point out how absurd the situation is: This is how WoW system developers continue to speak to and treat players that spent hundreds of hours of their free time trying to help them develop the game, based purely on passion. Let that sink in.
Going to be rounding off this thread and then switching off notifications. First, since multiple people have asked, this was the post I wrote about why I was done with the game in Legion. Consider this thread to be a belated, harsher addendum to it:
t.co
Second, I’ve retweeted a few acquaintances were on the forums with me — go and give their threads a read too. I never took screenshots (perhaps naively so) while present for the first generation of the forums, so I’m afraid I can’t provide any more.
Finally, thank you to everyone for the kind DMs and messages of support — I sincerely appreciate it. FWIW, all that this has really left me feeling is hollow. Glad I got it off my chest, but it’s sad to consider how a four tweet thread was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Around early/mid 2013, just before the release of the Throne of Thunder raid, I was invited to a private feedback forum for WoW theorycrafters. This was the first incarnation of the "private forums", which many have speculated about ever since.
In its initial stages, this forum was wonderful. Many of the most positive developments in both MoP and even the developmental stages of WoD were the result of the careful, thoughtful feedback that players on this forum provided.
It was also reciprocated with actual, candid discussion on the part of developers, the results of which were probably some of the strongest system and general game design that the game has seen.
Around the end of 2013, a key figure in WoW development (who also happened to be the brainchild behind the forums) left Blizzard. Slowly, but surely, everything began to change. Developer tones became more condescending. The obvious effort put in by players went ignored.
The majority of WoD was miserable for forum dwellers, but it was nothing compared to Legion. If there was ever a true “death” suffered by them, it occurred when the WoW dev team’s line of communication during the Legion Beta became nothing but insults, rudeness, and ignoring us.
It was a horrible experience. I alluded to what was going on somewhat in my final blogpost, but never went into full detail — largely out of respect for the person who had founded them, despite that person being long-gone for Blizzard. However, enough is enough.
The first incarnation of the private forums was deleted during Legion. It was then resurrected (and still exists) with a new crew of feedback givers with some overlap from the old, but continued in the same trend of developers essentially treating feedback givers like trash.
In addition, I’m told that there is also an influencers Discord, largely compromising of YouTube content creators and other “prominent” figures in the WoW community. In other words, the current forums are not the only semi-private line of communication the team has.
So when you read Twitter threads complaining about “the masses”, please understand that this team *does* have all the access they need to theorycrafters and players with a key stake in the game’s development. They simply choose to either ignore, insult, or belittle them.
Complaining about “the masses” is facetious. “The masses” have consisted of loud yelling by ignorant, uninformed players since Day 1 of Vanilla. That is the entire reason *behind* the genesis of the private forums and the influencer Discord.
Yet surprisingly “the masses” weren’t an issue in the past — probably because the team at the time actually understood that the best way to obtain good feedback was not by alienating and marginalising the actual rational voices of folks willing to put in the time/effort.
It took me a long time to take a step back and realise how incredibly fucked up it was that the WoW community consists of so many players (especially theorycrafters) that put in so much time and effort into improving the game with zero compensation. And many were happy to do so.
The truth is that it isn’t feedback that has suffered or changed. It is design. It is the state of a game whose system developers have proven themselves to be a bunch of manchildren with egos the size of mountains. Gaslighting your theorycrafter core won’t change that.
All of this (and more) were things I wish I'd included in my final blogpost, but that I refrained from doing out of respect for one person. If you’re reading this: I’m sorry if this damages our personal relationship. But, I can no longer be silent in the face of what’s happening
Judging by the 7 DMs I’ve already received thanking me for this thread, I guess it resonates. My suggestion? Please join me in speaking up, assuming it doesn’t put your safety or wellbeing in jeopardy. Many of you were right there with me, and saw most of what I did.
In case you were wondering what the tone of the private forums is like these days, here’s what someone with current access to them just DM’d me. Guess I’m not the only one who’s just about had it.
Here’s Exhibit 2. Same developer by the way, in case the tone didn’t make it abundantly clear.
Let me restate this again, just to point out how absurd the situation is: This is how WoW system developers continue to speak to and treat players that spent hundreds of hours of their free time trying to help them develop the game, based purely on passion. Let that sink in.
Going to be rounding off this thread and then switching off notifications. First, since multiple people have asked, this was the post I wrote about why I was done with the game in Legion. Consider this thread to be a belated, harsher addendum to it:
To All Things comes an End
“All good things must come to an end.” …Or so they say. Even as I write this, finally making real the words that have been drifting in my mind for months, it is hard to believe th…
t.co
Second, I’ve retweeted a few acquaintances were on the forums with me — go and give their threads a read too. I never took screenshots (perhaps naively so) while present for the first generation of the forums, so I’m afraid I can’t provide any more.
Finally, thank you to everyone for the kind DMs and messages of support — I sincerely appreciate it. FWIW, all that this has really left me feeling is hollow. Glad I got it off my chest, but it’s sad to consider how a four tweet thread was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
TL;DR: Ever since the old guard left WoW and Ion's team was put in charge, the devs have turned into a bunch of condescending manchildren who don't care about your feedback.
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If that's the 'smoking gun' that shows how mean the devs are to them, then I think it's safe to dismiss the entire rant as pathetic whining.
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Dalien
Registered Hodor
- 2,201
- 2,055
I didn't think the blue posts linked were all that bad either, just the overall attitude the devs have towards the playerbase these days. They just have to dig their heels in and die on every shitty hill, unless it's a really really really shitty idea, then they will revert it (but only halfway).
Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 17,209
- 13,757
It could also come down to power struggle over the future of WoW. There has been turnover recently in the old guard and critically WoW has been roasted by fans the past couple expansions. Them dying on the hill probably has more to do with them trying to maintain control over the product to demonstrate their team is the right team which overrides trying to appeal to the community (although in their eyes, it -should- appeal).
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Fucker
Log Wizard
- 13,091
- 30,077
I'd probably ignore players if I had to deal with players like Asmongold and his buddies on a regular basis.
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Fucker
Log Wizard
- 13,091
- 30,077
Ion and his Boomkin Buttbuddy should thank their lucky stars they had Classic to cloak their failure implementing new ideas. Things would look a lot different for SL if there was some actual accountability at Blizzard.
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Korzax Stonehammer
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 777
- 442
Someone gave me a computer after they had the harddrive removed, never got it to boot to bios, so no idea what the repair guys did, but the borked a good i5. I really should just stick in a hard drive and see what is up, but it's a HP and doesn't look that like it has a good MB or graphic card. I hate prebuilt, always build my own. Then you know what you are getting. New computer is in the works, just covid is putting a damper on things. I'm in Canada, we take it very seriously.
Korzax Stonehammer
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 777
- 442
I don't even raid, lol. I'm gathering followers atm. I dunno, i'm finding stuff to do. I did the intro to BFA where you rescue the princess, that was fun. I'm always worried about starting one of these scripted events, cuz i did one and it took ages and i wanted to quit half way through.
Honestly I have not played since cataclysm, so I have a few expacs to play around in. I really like the look of pandaria, and now I can fly, when i first tried it out in 2018 I couldn't. I lvl'd in legion, but once i couldn't do the missions cuz i didn't have resources for my chapions, i lost interest. Proababl;y go back to it once I'm 50.
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Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
- 38,360
- 16,251
Korzax Stonehammer
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 777
- 442
jayrebb
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 14,781
- 14,735
Appreciated it. Reminds me of the old EQ forums, and a little bit of this forum in the early 2000s.
This poster is a time capsule. We should cherish and foster it-- should we lose our core identities forever.
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We discussed this a few pages earlier. This is from a private forum where Blizzard specifically invited players for direct feedback during the Ghostcrawler era, in the hope to not drown their voices in the screaming of the masses. The one who wrote the initial Twitter post was Hamlet (from Elitist Jerks, who now does WoW systems). The claims, boiled down:
- Theorycrafters make getting feedback hard, because they instantly math out the numbers and it boils down to a buff/nerf discussion.
- Everyone just copies what the theorycrafters say and does not play for fun.
- Feedback is better when it is from an individual level.
Excuse me when I think this is just a strawman argument to deflect criticism early when that house of cards in
"But the game was never balanced for the leveling phase" - so why did they re-shuffle all the abilities, spells and talents around?
Leadsalad
Cis-XYite-Nationalist
- 6,207
- 12,915
Once your content difficulty goes beyond heroic raiding or m+15, “fun” leaves for the sun. But what do game companies who hire people who think they can actually change human nature instead of their games know. Too much self righteous fart sniffing on their end and trying to argue with autists who crunched the actual numbers.
Also, “fun” leaves for a lot of people once they can’t top the charts anymore, I know it does for me. So playing for “fun” means min-maxing everything despite the devs saying they want players to have fun doing whatever and then still designing the content around min-maxing.
Also, “fun” leaves for a lot of people once they can’t top the charts anymore, I know it does for me. So playing for “fun” means min-maxing everything despite the devs saying they want players to have fun doing whatever and then still designing the content around min-maxing.
Penance
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 6,997
- 9,549
Its pretty simple discussion, Ion sucks at his job and should've been fired a long time ago. You look at him and compare him to somebody like Chris Wilson, who admits mistakes, who engages with players on the forums and explains things at face value and rarely contradicts himself or goes back on his word.
I think Ion has this idea that somehow the 1% ruin the game for the 99%, and that has never, not once in this game's history been the case. I feel like this is his fundamental belief and that every decision he has made has come from this. A casual player will always go at their own pace and it really doesn't know, care, or get affected by the 1% in anyway. WOW is just a silo'd multiplayer game anyway.
I think Ion has this idea that somehow the 1% ruin the game for the 99%, and that has never, not once in this game's history been the case. I feel like this is his fundamental belief and that every decision he has made has come from this. A casual player will always go at their own pace and it really doesn't know, care, or get affected by the 1% in anyway. WOW is just a silo'd multiplayer game anyway.
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Springbok
Karen
- 9,518
- 14,091
Interesting thread about the current state of communication between devs and players:
Here's the text in case the tweets disappear:
I will no longer be silent. If you're curious about why I (and others) are cynical about the WoW team's feedback process, here's a thread about private avenues of feedback that some theorycrafters were/are offered — and why they haven’t made an ounce of difference in a long time
Around early/mid 2013, just before the release of the Throne of Thunder raid, I was invited to a private feedback forum for WoW theorycrafters. This was the first incarnation of the "private forums", which many have speculated about ever since.
In its initial stages, this forum was wonderful. Many of the most positive developments in both MoP and even the developmental stages of WoD were the result of the careful, thoughtful feedback that players on this forum provided.
It was also reciprocated with actual, candid discussion on the part of developers, the results of which were probably some of the strongest system and general game design that the game has seen.
Around the end of 2013, a key figure in WoW development (who also happened to be the brainchild behind the forums) left Blizzard. Slowly, but surely, everything began to change. Developer tones became more condescending. The obvious effort put in by players went ignored.
The majority of WoD was miserable for forum dwellers, but it was nothing compared to Legion. If there was ever a true “death” suffered by them, it occurred when the WoW dev team’s line of communication during the Legion Beta became nothing but insults, rudeness, and ignoring us.
It was a horrible experience. I alluded to what was going on somewhat in my final blogpost, but never went into full detail — largely out of respect for the person who had founded them, despite that person being long-gone for Blizzard. However, enough is enough.
The first incarnation of the private forums was deleted during Legion. It was then resurrected (and still exists) with a new crew of feedback givers with some overlap from the old, but continued in the same trend of developers essentially treating feedback givers like trash.
In addition, I’m told that there is also an influencers Discord, largely compromising of YouTube content creators and other “prominent” figures in the WoW community. In other words, the current forums are not the only semi-private line of communication the team has.
So when you read Twitter threads complaining about “the masses”, please understand that this team *does* have all the access they need to theorycrafters and players with a key stake in the game’s development. They simply choose to either ignore, insult, or belittle them.
Complaining about “the masses” is facetious. “The masses” have consisted of loud yelling by ignorant, uninformed players since Day 1 of Vanilla. That is the entire reason *behind* the genesis of the private forums and the influencer Discord.
Yet surprisingly “the masses” weren’t an issue in the past — probably because the team at the time actually understood that the best way to obtain good feedback was not by alienating and marginalising the actual rational voices of folks willing to put in the time/effort.
It took me a long time to take a step back and realise how incredibly fucked up it was that the WoW community consists of so many players (especially theorycrafters) that put in so much time and effort into improving the game with zero compensation. And many were happy to do so.
The truth is that it isn’t feedback that has suffered or changed. It is design. It is the state of a game whose system developers have proven themselves to be a bunch of manchildren with egos the size of mountains. Gaslighting your theorycrafter core won’t change that.
All of this (and more) were things I wish I'd included in my final blogpost, but that I refrained from doing out of respect for one person. If you’re reading this: I’m sorry if this damages our personal relationship. But, I can no longer be silent in the face of what’s happening
Judging by the 7 DMs I’ve already received thanking me for this thread, I guess it resonates. My suggestion? Please join me in speaking up, assuming it doesn’t put your safety or wellbeing in jeopardy. Many of you were right there with me, and saw most of what I did.
In case you were wondering what the tone of the private forums is like these days, here’s what someone with current access to them just DM’d me. Guess I’m not the only one who’s just about had it.
Here’s Exhibit 2. Same developer by the way, in case the tone didn’t make it abundantly clear.
Let me restate this again, just to point out how absurd the situation is: This is how WoW system developers continue to speak to and treat players that spent hundreds of hours of their free time trying to help them develop the game, based purely on passion. Let that sink in.
Going to be rounding off this thread and then switching off notifications. First, since multiple people have asked, this was the post I wrote about why I was done with the game in Legion. Consider this thread to be a belated, harsher addendum to it:
To All Things comes an End
“All good things must come to an end.” …Or so they say. Even as I write this, finally making real the words that have been drifting in my mind for months, it is hard to believe th…
Second, I’ve retweeted a few acquaintances were on the forums with me — go and give their threads a read too. I never took screenshots (perhaps naively so) while present for the first generation of the forums, so I’m afraid I can’t provide any more.
Finally, thank you to everyone for the kind DMs and messages of support — I sincerely appreciate it. FWIW, all that this has really left me feeling is hollow. Glad I got it off my chest, but it’s sad to consider how a four tweet thread was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
TL;DR: Ever since the old guard left WoW and Ion's team was put in charge, the devs have turned into a bunch of condescending manchildren who don't care about your feedback.
I mean... that tells me two things.
#1 These "theorycrafters" are the most thin-skinned, coddled wimps in the world if that is considered hurty language. Imagine doing all that work for a company, for no money and now no respect. Lol, complete losers.
#2 Blizzard is just using those channels now to appear to be listening to player feedback, and is staffed by nothing but ego maniacal man children who "always know best".
No wonder everything surrounding Blizzard is complete trash, both the developers themselves and the "insiders" devoted to their games are over sensitive imbeciles
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Rali
Trakanon Raider
- 232
- 376
Chris
Potato del Grande
- 19,672
- -10,584
Here's my story of incoherent Blizzard design:
I raided in Vanilla as a Shadow Priest around the time of Naxxramas, doing MC and BWL. Was pretty hard to convince a raid to take me but I'd done AQ40 as a Restro Druid and knew my way around the raids. This character is my current lv120 main.
What attracted me to the class was Vampiric Embrace and doing free AoE healing on top of my mediocre DPS. The Mage group loved dying less and the Healers liked not having to heal them. I even saved a few wipes by grabbing aggro using Mind Blast (since the AoE healing had me just behind the tanks anyway) and kiting the boss for a few more seconds of DPS/reviving the tank. I successfully tanked Stratholme once
In Burning Crusade they iterated on that design with Vampiric Touch and free AoE mana regen. Now I was a fantastic raid utility doing mediocre DPS but massivley extending how long the healers could heal. Golden Age of WoW right here.
Vampirism was a pretty cool class fantasy for an evil priest by the way. Christians "drink the blood of Christ" and all that, the ritualism of religion and human sacrifice really fit.
In Wrath of the Lich King they "balanced" Shadow Priest mana utility by giving the same buff to (I think) Moonkin and maybe one other. I understand that but Shaman already had Mana Tide Totems so this could have been done in a more unique way like the totems and preserved the uniqueness of Shadow Priests.
In Cataclysm they removed Vampiric Touch and made Vampiric Embrace a self only buff. What the fuck. Now Shadow Priests were purple mages and I stopped playing the game and the spec. This is the worst expansion they ever put out and started the subscription decline.
In Mists of Pandaria they added Atonement to Disipline Priests, they had a channeled spell that turned damage into healing and a single target spell that did the same. It was the old Shadow Priest design with Vampiric Embrace just baked into the spells rather than being a debuff. Why was this not the Shadow spec?
Now I really enjoyed Discipline and I started playing again. But the class fantasy wasn't there for Atonement (how is Holy damage healing me?) and Discipline already had a spec identity with preemptive healing via a more powerful Power Word: Shield.
They also continually nerfed it for being too powerful and it was gimped by Warlord of Draenor so I stopped playing again. I resubbed to play Legion and Battle for Azeroth back to back and I don't remember which spec I levelled as because it was so generic. Then I facerolled a Demon Hunter to 120 (how many AoE spells!?) and had better gear than my treasured 15 year old Priest. I'm probably quit for good now.
From what I'm reading, it seems like this has happened to every class and spec multiple times by now, especially the newer ones like Death Knight.
What the fuck went wrong at Blizzard?
I raided in Vanilla as a Shadow Priest around the time of Naxxramas, doing MC and BWL. Was pretty hard to convince a raid to take me but I'd done AQ40 as a Restro Druid and knew my way around the raids. This character is my current lv120 main.
What attracted me to the class was Vampiric Embrace and doing free AoE healing on top of my mediocre DPS. The Mage group loved dying less and the Healers liked not having to heal them. I even saved a few wipes by grabbing aggro using Mind Blast (since the AoE healing had me just behind the tanks anyway) and kiting the boss for a few more seconds of DPS/reviving the tank. I successfully tanked Stratholme once
In Burning Crusade they iterated on that design with Vampiric Touch and free AoE mana regen. Now I was a fantastic raid utility doing mediocre DPS but massivley extending how long the healers could heal. Golden Age of WoW right here.
Vampirism was a pretty cool class fantasy for an evil priest by the way. Christians "drink the blood of Christ" and all that, the ritualism of religion and human sacrifice really fit.
In Wrath of the Lich King they "balanced" Shadow Priest mana utility by giving the same buff to (I think) Moonkin and maybe one other. I understand that but Shaman already had Mana Tide Totems so this could have been done in a more unique way like the totems and preserved the uniqueness of Shadow Priests.
In Cataclysm they removed Vampiric Touch and made Vampiric Embrace a self only buff. What the fuck. Now Shadow Priests were purple mages and I stopped playing the game and the spec. This is the worst expansion they ever put out and started the subscription decline.
In Mists of Pandaria they added Atonement to Disipline Priests, they had a channeled spell that turned damage into healing and a single target spell that did the same. It was the old Shadow Priest design with Vampiric Embrace just baked into the spells rather than being a debuff. Why was this not the Shadow spec?
Now I really enjoyed Discipline and I started playing again. But the class fantasy wasn't there for Atonement (how is Holy damage healing me?) and Discipline already had a spec identity with preemptive healing via a more powerful Power Word: Shield.
They also continually nerfed it for being too powerful and it was gimped by Warlord of Draenor so I stopped playing again. I resubbed to play Legion and Battle for Azeroth back to back and I don't remember which spec I levelled as because it was so generic. Then I facerolled a Demon Hunter to 120 (how many AoE spells!?) and had better gear than my treasured 15 year old Priest. I'm probably quit for good now.
From what I'm reading, it seems like this has happened to every class and spec multiple times by now, especially the newer ones like Death Knight.
What the fuck went wrong at Blizzard?
Last edited:
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Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 17,209
- 13,757
You know what I would love? If they took FFXIV’s idea about having every tradeskill and gathering skill on one character. The 2 limit is bullshit, especially with the way they keep changing the advantages. Engineering is a pure QoL trade skill for instance, but you sacrifice a trade slot to have that.
That and shared rep. They aren’t going to go the route of one char is every job, but at least make rep and zone/story unlocks a shared pool across characters.
That and shared rep. They aren’t going to go the route of one char is every job, but at least make rep and zone/story unlocks a shared pool across characters.
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Chris
Potato del Grande
- 19,672
- -10,584
It'll encourage people to have multiple characters too if they can farm the same rep on different characters, repeat introduction quests with large rep boosts or buy rewards early to accelerate levelling. That's increasing the time subbed since all those characters require playtime invested in them to get gear.
It's quite short sighted to think that repeating the same boring grind on multiple characters is increasing playtime and therefore subs, people will just not do it. Repeating the fun parts like raiding or PvP will increase playtime.
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