World of Warcraft: Current Year

Wombat · Dec 6, 2024

After a character has been 80 for about a week, Valorstones only serve two 'purposes':
1) Occasionally, you'll get a same tier, lower ilevel item with a bonus secondary effect (e.g. Leech) that you can't swap to without doing more wizard chores.
2) Sometimes you'll get a lower ilevel, tier +1 item (e.g. Champion 8/8 to Hero 1/6) and won't be able to swap to the new armor color without doing more wizard chores.

That's the full utility of the Valorstone system. You could remove the currency tomorrow and the only change would be new 80s wouldn't suck quite as much.

I think the game would be fine removing both a tier of armor AND a tier of crests. Explorer gear is swapped so quickly it's not worth the database space, and fresh 80s starting at Adventurer would be fine.
On the crest front, between Delve gear and vault tokens, even solo players are likely hitting the point (8/8 Champion / 4/6 Hero) where only Gilded Crests do anything for them, which means they only have to gather 3,240 Weathereds for each item upgrade! Remove the Weathereds to make fresh 80s not as terrible (and give utility to Valorstones) but change WQs to drop 1 Carved and the numbers aren't quite as preposterous to make anything other than Vault tokens matter for the masses.

Juvarisx · Dec 6, 2024

Daidraco said:
The bottom rung of the crests needs to be chopped off, sure. Weathered? iirc, was just a waste of time or a "training" token to be more specific. The rest of it I thought was fine. Its to the point and succinct with what you're doing in terms of difficulty. It also gets you to do different layers of content, from mythic+ to raiding. Delves were a great entry, but they take players too deep into Mythic+ and the learning curve is too steep for a +6 to be the point of entry. What I "feel" like happened, is that Delves were designed with the old Mythic difficulty tiers in mind. 1-15 being viable for most players. Then they decided to squish Mythic+ into the 1-10, then changed a few things after that for 11-12.

I'd love to say they'll get it right next expansion, but they just cant seem to perfect the implementation of anything thats "new" and not stolen. I say that, but even stuff they've stolen lately has came in as as a lightweight mobile version of the system they stole... WoW's just a game that you play for around a ~month and.. I guess thats ok. I miss when I could play it for most of the year, but at the same time I dont.

Juvarisx - you playing POE2 today?

I should be on Sunday, I have family from up north coming into town today and tomorrow.

jayrebb · Dec 12, 2024

Action taken before Season 2 as expected.

Massive and way overdue.

jayrebb · Dec 12, 2024

I'll take it as a good faith gesture that this was added to the next update and not held until season 2 (really feels like this should have been in .5 not .7). But the amount of backlash the original design was going to cause was known immediately in beta.

Challengers Peril still needs to be erased OR boss respawn points need to be added to every boss. The run backs have to be toned down if Challengers Peril is wiping minutes off the timer for 1 wipe. There are also some major problems with the dungeon rotation for Season 2 coming up, so if people thought Season 1 TWW was the worst ever, just wait, there's more to come. There's a strong movement on the PTR to get Season 2 dungeon rotation changes done but with how long it took to get crest changes in Season 1 you already know how that's going to go. They'll wait until the end of the season to "solve" the problem they created.

Juvarisx · Dec 12, 2024

Figures they do itafter I finished getting my char to 638 ilvl oh well. Ill look at resubbing for S2 if the dungeon pool looks good, but the island they are adding looks whatever.

Too busy with other games now anyways.

turbo · Dec 14, 2024

Culling my char pool from 5 to 3, doing 8 10-12 key vaults a week on 5 chars and trying to 4/8 mythic raid on all was getting to be abit much.

Still enjoying it having never done any of this in 10 years; got everyone to at least 2700+ w/ main around 2840 I think. Fundementally my dps feels abit low compared to the clear "good" people so need to figure that out at some point. (have some blue and few purple parses on mythic raids but as general just not feeling like im doing max for my gear lvl which is 636/637 on 3 mains). Would honestly consider abit of coaching class on my ele shaman at least from a pro to see what im missing (i've read all guides etc and mythic dps just is abit lagging compared to my peers in the 12-13 keys).

Biggest 2 things they can do at this point is address the people creating such a toxic and insta leave environment (have to be careful with the solution to curve the issue without over correcting) and better incentivize tanks/healers so we dont sit in a queue for 30 minutes. Give them 20% bonus warband gilded crest credit and be done with it....i'm fine with that.

Third wish list would be to earn a token once a week that converts any heroic item gained at lets say 11 or above into a mythic item. It still controls the pace of gear coming into game but for as challenging as it as to get good teams to push in 11/12 in pugs i don't think thats a stretch to give abit of gear progression at a controlled rate. Plus lets you fill gaps easier.

jayrebb · Dec 14, 2024

turbo said:
Culling my char pool from 5 to 3, doing 8 10-12 key vaults a week on 5 chars and trying to 4/8 mythic raid on all was getting to be abit much.

Still enjoying it having never done any of this in 10 years; got everyone to at least 2700+ w/ main around 2840 I think. Fundementally my dps feels abit low compared to the clear "good" people so need to figure that out at some point. (have some blue and few purple parses on mythic raids but as general just not feeling like im doing max for my gear lvl which is 636/637 on 3 mains). Would honestly consider abit of coaching class on my ele shaman at least from a pro to see what im missing (i've read all guides etc and mythic dps just is abit lagging compared to my peers in the 12-13 keys).

Biggest 2 things they can do at this point is address the people creating such a toxic and insta leave environment (have to be careful with the solution to curve the issue without over correcting) and better incentivize tanks/healers so we dont sit in a queue for 30 minutes. Give them 20% bonus warband gilded crest credit and be done with it....i'm fine with that.

Third wish list would be to earn a token once a week that converts any heroic item gained at lets say 11 or above into a mythic item. It still controls the pace of gear coming into game but for as challenging as it as to get good teams to push in 11/12 in pugs i don't think thats a stretch to give abit of gear progression at a controlled rate. Plus lets you fill gaps easier.

Early season I was for this change, but now that we are late season and having some more experiences just spamming 10 keys (which will time no matter how many mistakes are made with overkill DPS unless it's a City of Threads due to runback) I changed my stance. I don't believe players should be locked into a toxic group. I realize the wide majority of leavers aren't leaving because it's toxic, but I'd want the option to remain.

The reason I changed my stance is because in spamming 10's for vault, I've come across a lot of 3k rated "pros" that clearly only run static groups but will PUG alts to vault, and they will flame a routine PUG 10 key like it's a 15 key. I have such a high tolerance for toxicity playing keys as my primary gameplay-- but this pushed it over the edge. We had a 2,300 rated Tank who had a 3k main. His pulls were absolutely atrocious that even the "trash rated" disc priest called him out for wasting his buff and pulling weird in Necrotic Wake. My CD's were being completely wasted with his made-up route. Worst tank I have seen all season, but I don't care because the key will time and complete no matter what. It's nothing to me. We one-shot kill Amarth without a single frost mage getting a cast off, we one-shot Stitchflesh in 1 round with me pulling 2.4mil single target. This 2300 tank 3k main pro then turns around and starts aggressively flaming the DPS, including me, saying "it's the worst dps he's ever played with in his life" and other baseless flames that are completely unhinged. He starts micro-criticizing the whole run (I guess because he times 15's, good for him) and the group had just had it. We finished the 10, timed it, and he's still writing unhinged flames cursing and swearing on how bad everyone is, barking into the wind as we all port out and disband.

I said to myself next time I come across a 3k "pro" that's terrible on his alt, and he thinks he's going to treat a 10 like his static 15 group, I'm just leaving him high and dry and moving onto the next key.

RobXIII · Dec 14, 2024

jayrebb said:
Early season I was for this change, but now that we are late season and having some more experiences just spamming 10 keys (which will time no matter how many mistakes are made with overkill DPS unless it's a City of Threads due to runback) I changed my stance. I don't believe players should be locked into a toxic group. I realize the wide majority of leavers aren't leaving because it's toxic, but I'd want the option to remain.

The reason I changed my stance is because in spamming 10's for vault, I've come across a lot of 3k rated "pros" that clearly only run static groups but will PUG alts to vault, and they will flame a routine PUG 10 key like it's a 15 key. I have such a high tolerance for toxicity playing keys as my primary gameplay-- but this pushed it over the edge. We had a 2,300 rated Tank who had a 3k main. His pulls were absolutely atrocious that even the "trash rated" disc priest called him out for wasting his buff and pulling weird in Necrotic Wake. My CD's were being completely wasted with his made-up route. Worst tank I have seen all season, but I don't care because the key will time and complete no matter what. It's nothing to me. We one-shot kill Amarth without a single frost mage getting a cast off, we one-shot Stitchflesh in 1 round with me pulling 2.4mil single target. This 2300 tank 3k main pro then turns around and starts aggressively flaming the DPS, including me, saying "it's the worst dps he's ever played with in his life" and other baseless flames that are completely unhinged. He starts micro-criticizing the whole run (I guess because he times 15's, good for him) and the group had just had it. We finished the 10, timed it, and he's still writing unhinged flames cursing and swearing on how bad everyone is, barking into the wind as we all port out and disband.

I said to myself next time I come across a 3k "pro" that's terrible on his alt, and he thinks he's going to treat a 10 like his static 15 group, I'm just leaving him high and dry and moving onto the next key.

Yes, but did you have FUN? lol ;\

jayrebb · Dec 22, 2024

Ion Hazzikostas is close to removing the M+ timer, and is actively in internal discussion over it.

Please pull the lever. Stand up to those devs. Remove the addon hooks.

Palum · Dec 22, 2024

Death to all addons

Derkon · Dec 22, 2024

Legit would consider playing again if shit like weakauras/bigwigs is removed. Ditto for timed content.

Blitz · Dec 22, 2024

Removing a heavy majority of add-ons would be amazing. You wouldn't have to make all these fights spergged out DDR-fests, and could maybe even get back to a game that has an element of resource management at the end-game instead of just hyper, memorized movement.

Neranja · Dec 23, 2024

Blitz said:
You wouldn't have to make all these fights spergged out DDR-fests

One of the biggest problems of current WoW is the lack of feedback that a player fucked up in lower difficulties, making failed mechanics essentially a healer problem. Until it isn't anymore and people die due to back-to-back mechanics, and then the healer gets blamed for the deaths.

Blizzard should really take the L and copy what FFXIV does: If a player fucks up a mechanic he gets notified. In FFXIV you get a stacking Damage Down or Disseminate debuff (damage taken increased by 10%).

Previous Blizzard would have prided themselves to steal all good ideas from the competition. But this is current Blizzard/ion we are talking about: For years retail WoW has traveled on the "if they build better addons, we just increase the complexity" train, and may be gone too far. They would have to redesign all the encounters, and clean out class complexity, too. You know, this is a company that at one point in time had no problem giving some healers rotations and ramp-ups, too.

At the same time they have cultivated a paying audience that revels in this. This is either "Dark Souls" for them, or Stockholm syndrome. We already have people complaining that this would kill M+, because things are fine as they are and everything is just a skill issue. And how they played to over 3k RIO "in some seasons" without addons.

And then you hear that they play a tank, and it's obvious: people would carry a bad tank to 3k RIO instead of having no tank at all.

jayrebb · Dec 23, 2024

The shitbag developers that design the game around bigwigs and WA are pushing back.

These entrenched developers will need the addons and M+ timer pried out of their cold dead fingers-- because the toxicity isn't just pervasive among players, it's the developers that built it.

Chris · Dec 23, 2024

jayrebb said:
Ion Hazzikostas is close to removing the M+ timer, and is actively in internal discussion over it.

View attachment 565960

Please pull the lever. Stand up to those devs. Remove the addon hooks.

It doesn't need a timer. It doesn't need a death limit either.

If you can't clear it, you can't clear it. A secondary measure of competence isn't needed.

What is needed is no toxicity and the time to learn tactics, like other games have.

These devs are nuts.

jayrebb · Dec 23, 2024

Chris said:
It doesn't need a timer. It doesn't need a death limit either.

If you can't clear it, you can't clear it. A secondary measure of competence isn't needed.

What is needed is no toxicity and the time to learn tactics, like other games have.

These devs are nuts.

These are the same shitbags that built class mechanics around WA and bigwigs for the last decade.

They are only now responding because WoW reached record population since Legion. If TWW did mid numbers, they wouldn't even be engaging on this at all.

They are worried about new player retention.

turbo · Dec 23, 2024

Fuck yes baby....what a week to end the year with. Did a triple penta
- 5 characters w/ 8 or more 10-13 vaults each
- 5 characters w/ mystic raids (3 4/8s)
- 5 or more +12s on alts (4 +13s on main)

Hit 3005 as well which was my stretch goal starting out, and did it in style w/ +13 Siege with 17 seconds left as we 3 manned it praying. All 12s and 13s were with PUGs.

Sure this isn't anything impressive to you higher end WOW players but for someone who hasnt played the game in a decade and struggling from decaying reflexes at 43, i'm pretty proud of where i came from in the last few months.

My poor brother who is really good player that i came back to play with had to deal with me trying to learn such great things such as "hmm i should use a few add ons" or "hmm, strafe might be useful to learn to use" , "hmm never played a melee in 27 yrs of MMO gaming....lets try!!" and even "hmm never played as a shift gamer before, might as well try". Been alot of grinding and plenty of failure but damn did it feel good today to see that tick over 3k.

Have 4 other chars 2700+ so will probably push on my survival hunter next and cull my mage/evoker as 5 chars is just way to much. Thinking i'll settle on Elemental shaman as my main raider/mythic for season 2 again and then hunter forsure (hoping marksman makes a come back). Most likely fury warrior for my 3rd "fun" char but evoker isn't fully ruled out if they would give him one more just pure damage buffs.

Ukerric · Dec 24, 2024

Chris said:
It doesn't need a timer. It doesn't need a death limit either.

If you can't clear it, you can't clear it. A secondary measure of competence isn't needed.

What is needed is no toxicity and the time to learn tactics, like other games have.

These devs are nuts.

Well, you're supposed to learn the tactics in the easier levels. You know, those nobody does because you get gear better than these by different means.

Ashin · Dec 24, 2024

turbo said:
Fuck yes baby....what a week to end the year with. Did a triple penta
- 5 characters w/ 8 or more 10-13 vaults each
- 5 characters w/ mystic raids (3 4/8s)
- 5 or more +12s on alts (4 +13s on main)

Hit 3005 as well which was my stretch goal starting out, and did it in style w/ +13 Siege with 17 seconds left as we 3 manned it praying. All 12s and 13s were with PUGs.

Sure this isn't anything impressive to you higher end WOW players but for someone who hasnt played the game in a decade and struggling from decaying reflexes at 43, i'm pretty proud of where i came from in the last few months.

My poor brother who is really good player that i came back to play with had to deal with me trying to learn such great things such as "hmm i should use a few add ons" or "hmm, strafe might be useful to learn to use" , "hmm never played a melee in 27 yrs of MMO gaming....lets try!!" and even "hmm never played as a shift gamer before, might as well try". Been alot of grinding and plenty of failure but damn did it feel good today to see that tick over 3k.

Have 4 other chars 2700+ so will probably push on my survival hunter next and cull my mage/evoker as 5 chars is just way to much. Thinking i'll settle on Elemental shaman as my main raider/mythic for season 2 again and then hunter forsure (hoping marksman makes a come back). Most likely fury warrior for my 3rd "fun" char but evoker isn't fully ruled out if they would give him one more just pure damage buffs.

View attachment 566159

Congrats. Marksmanship is getting heavily reworked next season - so you can expect it to be overpowered AF (this has happened every time they do a rework for the last 2 expansions at least).

Chris · Dec 24, 2024

Ukerric said:
Well, you're supposed to learn the tactics in the easier levels. You know, those nobody does because you get gear better than these by different means.

The tactics change though and I played at launch when Mythic wasn't open.

Probably posted this before but there's stuff like Gossomer Webs on the first boss in Ara Kara where it's a medium range AoE that also spawns swirlies under you.

On Heroic you are destroying the boss who cares what you do.

On M0 the healer can heal through the mechanic as long as you avoid the swirlies.

By M2 the tank needs to be using a defensive or two.

By M4 the tank needs to get out of the medium range AoE, I used a movement skill.

By M6 everyone needs to be carefully placing the swirlies around the edge of the area so there's space to move.

This is excellent game design, scaling difficulty can be overcome with new tactics. But you need to be able to fail, communicate with each other and come up with a new strategy.

I learned that it's a medium range AoE you can get out of because I got flamed on a M4 clear for using up mine and healers resources to survive the first one and die to the second.

It's not explained to avoid the AoE in the dungeon guide, there's no visual cue that the range is limited and you can use a movement skill to get out of it (other bosses do have this), video guides didn't mention it (at least the ones I saw).

So how the fuck are you supposed to learn this mechanic when nobody can talk because of a timer and someone is anxious then angry because of the key they farmed? Oh and if you talk about it before they kick you for not having the experience!

There's a few things like this in every dungeon.

Meanwhile I'm doing things x10 more complicated in the other game, dying x10 more times to learn and never got flamed once because it's consequence free and normalised.

I actually loved progressing through M+ but dealing with the people made it suck and the game design is filtering out normal people and creating assholes.

It's just outdated game design, even Elden Ring just puts you back next to the boss to go again.

Search

World of Warcraft: Current Year

Wombat

Trakanon Raider

Juvarisx

Florida

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider

Juvarisx

Florida

turbo

Molten Core Raider

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider

RobXIII

Urinal Cake Consumption King

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider

Palum

what Suineg set it to

Derkon

Blackwing Lair Raider

Blitz

Neranja

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider

Chris

Potato del Grande

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider

turbo

Molten Core Raider

Ukerric

Bearded Ape

Ashin

Silver Knight of the Realm

Chris

Potato del Grande