Writers Guild Strike 2023

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Chanur

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Only because his works are too old for copyright.

Philip K Dick's family is still getting a cut of his shit.
Bummer for actors. They are not going to get shit. He is also getting a cut because of his contract. Studios own the work in film and tv and these people were hired to bring something the studio owns to light. It's not the same as an author even if it's similar.
 
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Mist

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Bummer for actors. They are not going to get shit. He is also getting a cut because of his contract. Studios own the work in film and tv and these people were hired to bring something the studio owns to light. It's not the same as an author even if it's similar.
You're just looking at this wrong.

A better question is "why don't software developers unionize and demand residuals for their work when it's copied and redistributed?"

For this entire brief and shitty epoch leading up to the current moment, the people who do all the work have been selling ourselves out to the people who take all the credit, and we're about to lose forever if they can find enough GPUs to run mediocre copies of us on.
 
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Chanur

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You're just looking at this wrong.

A better question is "why don't software developers unionize and demand residuals for their work when it's copied and redistributed?"

For this entire brief and shitty epoch leading up to the current moment, the people who do all the work have been selling ourselves out to the people who take all the credit, and we're about to lose forever if they can find enough GPUs to run mediocre copies of us on.
That's the way it works. Actors cannot make movies by themselves. They need the scumbag money class to do it. It's why the money class owns the work.
 

Mist

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That's the way it works. Actors cannot make movies by themselves. They need the scumbag money class to do it. It's why the money class owns the work.
I think that recent evidence shows that those people aren't that necessary and might actually be fucking the industry up.

There's other ways to fund a movie with the platforms and technologies we have right now. Not vague future technologies like AI that actually produces something that isn't Goku talking about getting pegged over 9000 times.
 
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Armadon

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Jobs have been lost throughout history due to technology. Actors can find a new job just like everyone else has.
 
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Lanx

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yea, just like how that entire corrupt industry was able to do outdoor seating, while other restaurants killed themselves


burn all of hollywood down

you know what that faggot industry even exists? cuz they were too cheap to pay for edison lightbulbs in nj, so they moved to uninhabitable california where there is always sun, who needs lightbulbs!
 
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Chanur

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I think that recent evidence shows that those people aren't that necessary and might actually be fucking the industry up.

There's other ways to fund a movie with the platforms and technologies we have right now. Not vague future technologies like AI that actually produces something that isn't Goku talking about getting pegged over 9000 times.
Cool then they can do that and ignore the studios. They don't need to come to terms then. I eagerly await the rush of true independent works.
 
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Chukzombi

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yea, just like how that entire corrupt industry was able to do outdoor seating, while other restaurants killed themselves


burn all of hollywood down

you know what that faggot industry even exists? cuz they were too cheap to pay for edison lightbulbs in nj, so they moved to uninhabitable california where there is always sun, who needs lightbulbs!

its for the best. we have enough creepers and weirdos in this state as it is. just look at me!
 

Furry

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Stolen from the AI thread. This is what the writer's are worried about:

View attachment 482733
This made me laugh harder than anything disney's made in the last decade. If this is what our AI overlord demands entertainment become, then let it be so.
 

bolok

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This made me laugh harder than anything disney's made in the last decade. If this is what our AI overlord demands entertainment become, then let it be so.
Shit got TOS'd already, but it was amusing for the hour or so I watched. However similar to the previous seinfeld deal- it was like 90% lame garbage. Occasionally you'd get some funny shit from someone with a 4chan-ish sense of humor who had a clue had to craft a proper prompt. But those were pretty rare. This setup was (i think) ran all off of prompts run through a discord channel bot. Some of them had some decent payoffs, but it was usually just a ~2 min scene or so worth of dialog.
I could easily see Adult Swim doing some of their typical 15 min shows with some "wacky" output from some of these. But stringing together a season would probably take some serious doing.
 

bolok

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This made me laugh harder than anything disney's made in the last decade. If this is what our AI overlord demands entertainment become, then let it be so.
The prompt was something like freiza's ultimate form and blacked. There was a short preamble before the skits that was related to the presumable prompt. (actual prompt? no idea)
 

Big Phoenix

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I think that recent evidence shows that those people aren't that necessary and might actually be fucking the industry up.

There's other ways to fund a movie with the platforms and technologies we have right now. Not vague future technologies like AI that actually produces something that isn't Goku talking about getting pegged over 9000 times.
And yet nothing is stopping them. They certainly have more than enough money to front a production themselves and have relationships with everyone involved in the movie making process. Mel Gibson showed it can be done with Passion of the Christ.

Yet they dont do it. Funny how that works.
 
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Arden

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Here's the problem, a lot of the people (SAG/WGA) trying to prevent the studios from using tech to save money are the same people who told coal miners to "learn to code" when the miners did the same thing.

Personally, I feel like you have to let the market take its course in determining which occupations stay and which go. If there's a need for your occupation, the laws of supply and demand guarantee you'll have a job. If we advance to the point where your job is no longer necessary, well...

But if that's what I believe, then I have to be ok when technology comes for my job. I don't have to be happy about it, but unless I want to be a hypocrite, I've got to acknowledge that the world has just moved on, and I need to find a new niche.

But, again, i could see a viable argument from the other side too. I think what's leaving a bad taste in people's mouth is the fact that a lot of these actors have been vocal about telling blue collar workers to move on, but now that the shoe is on the other foot they want to put the brakes on technology so that they can preserve their own jobs. Smells like bullshit.

Frankly, it's sad when tech or other factors make entire occupations disappear, but it's been happening since time immemorial. When's the last time the ice delivery guy showed up at your house? There was a moment when they developed refrigeration to the point where people could have in home refrigerators, where society could have chosen not to go that route in order to preserve the jobs of ice delivery men. What happened? Well, everyone has a refrigerator and ice delivery guys no longer exist.

Is it right? I don't know, but it's the way it is. I think it's ok to contemplate either way, but don't be a fucking hypocrite.
 
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moonarchia

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And yet nothing is stopping them. They certainly have more than enough money to front a production themselves and have relationships with everyone involved in the movie making process. Mel Gibson showed it can be done with Passion of the Christ.

Yet they dont do it. Funny how that works.
And now Sound of Freedom! Jim Caviezel is da man!
 

OU Ariakas

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You're just looking at this wrong.

A better question is "why don't software developers unionize and demand residuals for their work when it's copied and redistributed?"

For this entire brief and shitty epoch leading up to the current moment, the people who do all the work have been selling ourselves out to the people who take all the credit, and we're about to lose forever if they can find enough GPUs to run mediocre copies of us on.

You are looking at this from the lens of someone who views the people with money as somehow evil for taking almost all of the risk in these situations. We already have a class of software developers that get residuals for their code.... they are called fucking startups.

Why don't software developers unionize and demand residuals for their work when it is copied and redistributed? Because the developers you are talking about work at giant firms and are either working on a code base that was there long before they saw it OR are developing as a team so there is no real way to assign credit.

This goes for actors/writers/whoever the fuck else wants "residuals." If you want them, go take all the goddamn risk and do it yourself without signing a contract for capital. Fucking people talking about unions like they are some magical solution to problems that already have solutions. We are 53 years out from OSHA and that means unions are fucking WORTHLESS to employers and only exist to benefit the 80% of employees you have said do fuck-all for the company.
 

Mist

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You are looking at this from the lens of someone who views the people with money as somehow evil for taking almost all of the risk in these situations. We already have a class of software developers that get residuals for their code.... they are called fucking startups.

Why don't software developers unionize and demand residuals for their work when it is copied and redistributed? Because the developers you are talking about work at giant firms and are either working on a code base that was there long before they saw it OR are developing as a team so there is no real way to assign credit.

This goes for actors/writers/whoever the fuck else wants "residuals." If you want them, go take all the goddamn risk and do it yourself without signing a contract for capital. Fucking people talking about unions like they are some magical solution to problems that already have solutions. We are 53 years out from OSHA and that means unions are fucking WORTHLESS to employers and only exist to benefit the 80% of employees you have said do fuck-all for the company.
We live in a society where everyone thinks THEY should be paid MORE but everyone ELSE should be paid LESS. Average that out across a society and it ends up with everyone getting fucked, except for a handful of people at the top who really don't take that much 'risk' (they'll still be rich no matter how many times they fuck up, that's not what I'd call risk) and are quite obviously not that smart, particularly in the case of these recent Hollywood executives.
 
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OU Ariakas

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We live in a society where everyone thinks THEY should be paid MORE but everyone ELSE should be paid LESS. Average that out across a society and it ends up with everyone getting fucked.

No, we live in a society where keeping up with the Jones' makes everyone think that they need more to spend more and our public education is so terrible that they would rather try and get every kid eating free meals and talking about 'inclusivity' instead of teaching them life skills like cooking and basic economics. I know people in 6 figures that live paycheck to paycheck; they are savvy people that are smart enough to do their job well but had ZERO education on just the most basic principles of economics.

Average that out across a society and it ends up with everyone getting fucked, except for a handful of people at the top who really don't take that much 'risk' (they'll still be rich no matter how many times they fuck up, that's not what I'd call risk) and are quite obviously not that smart, particularly in the case of these recent Hollywood executives.

Newsflash: there have always been rich people and there always will be; most of the ones that inherit wealth tend to lose it within a few generations so while your statement may be true for THESE particular rich people it is not true for their families or kids. None of this changes the fact that the industry we are talking about requires huge sums of money to enter just by the nature of the product. That means almost all of the risk is on the rich people or banks and almost none on the creatives. You mentioned book writing and that is almost the opposite end of the spectrum. There is no real capital needed to write a book other than the time it takes the author to do so; companies will give you an advance on sales to let them write faster but the bulk of the risk is on the author to produce something that sells more than the advance they were given. A union helps neither of these situations.

It seems like Hollywood in particular has been able to get away with incompetence for decades because it was an almost foolproof way to make money; now, the chickens are coming home to roost and that incompetence is going to basically upend the entire industry almost exactly how Napster forever changed the music industry.
 

Mist

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No, we live in a society where keeping up with the Jones' makes everyone think that they need more to spend more and our public education is so terrible that they would rather try and get every kid eating free meals and talking about 'inclusivity' instead of teaching them life skills like cooking and basic economics. I know people in 6 figures that live paycheck to paycheck; they are savvy people that are smart enough to do their job well but had ZERO education on just the most basic principles of economics.



Newsflash: there have always been rich people and there always will be; most of the ones that inherit wealth tend to lose it within a few generations so while your statement may be true for THESE particular rich people it is not true for their families or kids. None of this changes the fact that the industry we are talking about requires huge sums of money to enter just by the nature of the product. That means almost all of the risk is on the rich people or banks and almost none on the creatives. You mentioned book writing and that is almost the opposite end of the spectrum. There is no real capital needed to write a book other than the time it takes the author to do so; companies will give you an advance on sales to let them write faster but the bulk of the risk is on the author to produce something that sells more than the advance they were given. A union helps neither of these situations.

It seems like Hollywood in particular has been able to get away with incompetence for decades because it was an almost foolproof way to make money; now, the chickens are coming home to roost and that incompetence is going to basically upend the entire industry almost exactly how Napster forever changed the music industry.
You're not really worth arguing with. You're not saying anything that hasn't been said better by others, and you're using too many words to do it.
 
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