Yesterday was my dog's 4th birthday.

Sentagur_sl said:

So does that mean the Pit bull's are shitty dogs or that people who prefer pit bulls are shitty and irresponsible dog owners?

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It means that dog attacks in general, and pit bull attacks specifically, are so rare that making a copy pasta statistic post about it is fucking idiotic.

In my mind, there's no question that some breeds are more dangerous than others, whether because of their physical size or their temperament. There is no fucking way I'd ever consider getting a Husky if I had kids, for example. Fucking things are halfway to being wolves, and despite being extremely rare, are responsible for a lot of deaths.

Tuco_sl said:

I haven't seen any evidence to indicate that pitbulls have a worse temperament than other dogs, however their physical ability to do damage is self-evident. I don't judge pit owners, but I'd personally never get a dog whose ass I couldn't kick.

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This seems like solid common sense to me. Combining kids with dogs can be a risky thing. When my youngest was 3 he took a flying leap off a couch and landed on a sleeping dog - I don't know what it was, it looked like a smallish German Shepherd. Know what the dog did? Acted like a dog and bit. Couple of snaps and then backed right off. My son had to get stitches on his face.

I do not blame the dog in that situation. Nor do I blame the owners. If anything, I blame myself for allowing my son to get into a situation where he was able to drop four feet onto a dog. The outcome is that he has much more respect for animals, but he didn't gain fear of them (miraculously). All in all, it is a good result from this. He played with the very same dog the next day.

Now, imagine that he had done the same, and landed on a pit bull. The strength of the jaws, the weight of the dog, and whatever training it had would have done so much more damage to my son, no question. That is not the right situation in which to insert a muscular, powerful dog. I don't care how much you watch your children, or how well you teach them to respect animals and all that, two and three year old kids test the limits of pets patience. Having a pit bull when you have a toddler is more dangerous than having a Pomeranian when you have a toddler, that's just plain true.

Does that make it inherently bad to have a pit bull? Well, decide for yourself, folks. My kids are old enough now that they can be trusted to not take flying leaps, so, if I were a dog person, I might consider having a pit bull in the house, except for the fact that many of our friends who visit have two and three year old kids. So, still, no. I wouldn't do it.

There's a place for pit bulls. Those places should probably not overlap with places where young children roam free.

But that's just my $0.02

Did you folks know that pit bulls are now illegal in Ontario? Crazy.

Have a friend with a pit-bull, and he's the sweetest pussy-cat of a dog. Have another friend with a pug, and he's also the sweetest pussy-cat of a dog. Was in Thailand a month back, and went to "Tiger Kingdom" where you get to actually PET/HUG full grown 1000lb tigers in their cage, and they were also the sweetest-pussy cats, sitting there quietly as you petted them as if they were some housecat. All this is the result of proper training. However, consider the following two scenarios:

1) Instinct. They are all beasts with a brain the size of a turnip. Despite training they can snap for no apparent reason (see Siegfried and Roy). In the examples above this can mean death in the case of the Pit-bull or Tiger, but you'd have to be semi-paralyzed on the floor with your throat exposed for the pug to do any serious damage. Try taking food or a toy from your dog's mouth, and you'll be surprised how many super-well trained dogs turn into rabid beasts.

2) Lack of Training: Failing to properly train the pug isn't going to result in anyone dying. Failing to train the pit-bull however potentially can.

Since people are clusterfucks, inevitably you end up with a lot of dogs that are untrained. You don't hear about the untrained pugs biting people on the news, because they don't die or require 500+ stitches. You hear about pitbulls all the time because their victims are killed/maimed. Now you can argue that you (as a responsible dog owner) shouldn't be barred from purchasing a breed because of other people's irresponsibility ( whole separate debate), but inevitably there are probably 100+ other breeds you can choose from that don't have jaws capable of snapping your femur in two.

look at these stupid brazilian rednecks

So we all agree. Some breeds are inherently more dangerous than others, and anyone who has small children and a pit bull is a terrible parent.

Black people with pitbulls are terrible dog owners. That's what I'm taking away from all of this.

PROVE ME WRONG.

I believe everyone's favorite kid-friendly breed the Golden Retriever is actually having the highest surge in bite attacks. A combination of poor breeding standards and adults thinking their kid can do anything to a dog leads to attacks. But you can train biting out of any dog of any breed. It just takes time. My dog doesn't see biting living things as even an option.

their clip size should be restricted

I grew up a German Shepard and that dog was God to me. He did snap at one of my 2 year old cousins because she was punching him in the face one time.

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:

Have a friend with a pit-bull, and he's the sweetest pussy-cat of a dog. Have another friend with a pug, and he's also the sweetest pussy-cat of a dog. Was in Thailand a month back, and went to "Tiger Kingdom" where you get to actually PET/HUG full grown 1000lb tigers in their cage, and they were also the sweetest-pussy cats, sitting there quietly as you petted them as if they were some housecat. All this is the result of proper training. However, consider the following two scenarios:

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I went to tiger kingdom also. Really cool experience. But those tigers are prepubescent, even the biggest ones. Once they hit puberty, they don't let people in the cage with them. I stood 1 foot away from one that was in a cage while it was fed a half chicken. The sounds it made as it ate...it chilled my soul. I won't ever forget that sound.

Anyway, yea dogs

Dabamf_sl said:

I went to tiger kingdom also. Really cool experience. But those tigers are prepubescent, even the biggest ones. Once they hit puberty, they don't let people in the cage with them. I stood 1 foot away from one that was in a cage while it was fed a half chicken. The sounds it made as it ate...it chilled my soul. I won't ever forget that sound.

Anyway, yea dogs

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Maybe it made those sounds because you still smell a bit of cat food? I don't think you can wash the smell off.

We watched "Marley and Me" last night. What a terrible movie. Didn't cry at the end because the film spent the first 90% trying to prove what a pain in the ass the dog was, then expected you to get emotional when he meets his demise.

They were terrible owners
The dog was a slobbery, destructive pain in the ass
They expected everyone to put up with their stupid, badly behaved dog

I spent most of the movie wishing the dog would go while my kids were all blubbery messes. I still felt justified.

Dog ownership is, in my opinion, a great pre-cursor to parenting. If you do it wrong the dog will end up terrible. It will be destructive, it will be annoying and it overall won't follow commands. But if you put in the time and effort the dog will turn out great. Everyone wants my dog's breed in the family now because of how well behaved he is. I have to constantly tell them I spent literally hours every day when the dog was a puppy drilling commands into him and give him constant attention and exercise now that he's grown up. It didn't just happen by magic because of his breed. Whenever I bring him to someone's house the dog knows he has to stay within eyesight of me or I'll recall him back. So after doing a few laps around the new house checking everything out he pretty much just lays at my feet. Again this didn't happen by magic he knows better. I feel they are transferable skills (obviously you have to take a different approach to train a dog versus raise a child) or at least prepare you for investing time into another living thing to get a positive outcome.

I read a study somewhere that people that read books and information on child raising don't gain too much important information from the books that effects the child. Rather it is simply a profile of the parents that they're willing to put thought, time and effort into child raising instead of a hands-off "do whatever" approach.

Sometimes you can get lucky or unlucky with a pet as well. My dad refused to let us have a dog growing up, until one day my 18 year old brother brought home a tiny little german shep collie cross puppy that one of his friend's family's had gotten somehow, but decided they couldn't keep it. He was only supposed to stay with us a few days until we found a new home for him, which of course we didn't because that little fucker was ADORABLE (and of course my bro moved out 6 months later). No one in our family had any experience training a dog. My sister and I (she was 16, I was 12) took him to obedience school, and did our best to train him at home as well. My dad would occasionally slap the shit out of him if he pooped in the house or ripped a casing off a window to eat. And despite our complete lack of knowledge of dog training, he turned out to be the most amazingly docile, gentile, friendly, obedient, loving dog that I've seen to this day.

And I honestly think 80% of that was simply his personality. Anyone, even a complete stranger, could walk up to him while he was eating a fucking steak and take it from him with no fear of being bitten. It just wasn't in his nature. Hell, if you said "stay" while he was eating that steak, he'd drop it, pull his ears back, and look at you with a sad puppy face until you said "okay". We're talking a 120 lb dog.

The only time I ever saw him get vicious was when he was next door playing with his "girlfriend", some sort of lab husky cross, and the family's other older dog, an old miserable 30lb corgy pinned him up against a fence nipping at him. Sarge went from terrified to ripping a chunk out of the corgy's shoulder and back to terrified when I yelled at him to stop in about half a second.

So yeah, training is important. No question. But so is breed, and so is the dice roll of temperament.