EQ Never

Better than Arrowgorrn's world.

Itzena, WoW is out already. Why, dude. Why.

Also you guys want dynamic, challenging content with complex and evolving AI, but don't want PvP.

What the fuck gives?

Player-made content is awesome! I love killing 50 <Insert Highest-EXP:Time-to-Kill Ratio Monster in the generator> in a hallway/open plain for randomly generated loot!

Now entering the Ruins of $$$FASTESTXP MAP v2.67b BY[email protected]/* <![CDATA[ */!function(t,e,r,n,c,a,p){try{t=document.currentScript||function(){for(t=document.getElementsByTagName('script'),e=t.length;e--if(t[e].getAttribute('data-cfhash'))return t[e]}();if(t&&(c=t.previousSibling)){p=t.parentNode;if(a=c.getAttribute('data-cfemail')){for(e='',r='0x'+a.substr(0,2)|0,n=2;a.length-n;n+=2)e+='%'+('0'+('0x'+a.substr(n,2)^r).toString(16)).slice(-2);p.replaceChild(document.createTextNode(decodeURIComponent(e)),c)}p.removeChild(t)}}catch(u){}}()/* ]]> */$$$

Kuro_sl said:

Player-made content is awesome! I love killing 50 <Insert Highest-EXP:Time-to-Kill Ratio Monster in the generator> in a hallway/open plain for randomly generated loot!

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I am reasonably confident that PMC in EQN won't RLT (roll like that). It's going to be more like: build an in-world keep from pre-set building elements and the game will procedurally generate some additional NPC buildings & NPC based on your keep & your class. NPCs will populate with storybricks quests based on their wants/needs.

@Nirgon the problem with PvP is that as it currently exists in any MMO I've played it is bullshit. There are no real consequences for player killing as long as your guild >> the other's persons guild. Implement real consequences and I'm interested.

PVP argument is easy. It's a-ok to have on regulated servers where the bottom rung of humanity can congregate. And I am totally ok for there being ruleset servers. But the type of player typically attracted to PVP servers in MMOs is not a counterstrike playing l33t headshotter looking for competition. They are, in the most general sense, dickwads who basically just like taking advantage of broken mechanics and ruining someone else's day. I know, most the people I ran with when I played on PVP servers were like that. There are -always- people who aren't and they should be commended, but having that type of gameplay as the only type of gameplay -will- attract the dickwads. In great numbers. Especially in a game where you can ruin not only someone's day, but ruin the days of everyone around them as well by fucking with some SANDBOX related element?

Thanks, but please keep the asshattery contained as much as possible.

I'll be happy to say I'm wrong when I'm proven wrong, but unless gear/levels/everything means nothing and this is a pure "skill" (lawlz) related game, there really isn't a precedent for PVP being done well enough in a mmo where the situation I mentioned above won't be the rule as opposed to the exception.

edit: in before mythical social pariah status invoked

Rezz_sl said:

PVP argument is easy. It's a-ok to have on regulated servers where the bottom rung of humanity can congregate. And I am totally ok for there being ruleset servers. But the type of player typically attracted to PVP servers in MMOs is not a counterstrike playing l33t headshotter looking for competition. They are, in the most general sense, dickwads who basically just like taking advantage of broken mechanics and ruining someone else's day. I know, most the people I ran with when I played on PVP servers were like that. There are -always- people who aren't and they should be commended, but having that type of gameplay as the only type of gameplay -will- attract the dickwads. In great numbers. Especially in a game where you can ruin not only someone's day, but ruin the days of everyone around them as well by fucking with some SANDBOX related element?

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I rarely agree with Rezz but pretty much this. Nirgon you seem like a decent fellow but my experience on PvP servers is one of being ganked and corpse-camped by some much higher level repeatedly, to the point where I just quit.

For PvP to have consequences factions need to matter and PKing someone should cause significant hits to factions related to the killed player - this doesn't preclude declared "wars" between guilds which would have less signficcant faction hits for killing members of the enemy guild.

tad10_sl said:

I rarely agree with Rezz but pretty much this. Nirgon you seem like a decent fellow but my experience on PvP servers is one of being ganked and corpse-camped by some much higher level repeatedly, to the point where I just quit.

For PvP to have consequences factions need to matter and PKing someone should cause significant hits to factions related to the killed player - this doesn't preclude declared "wars" between guilds which would have less signficcant faction hits for killing members of the enemy guild.

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That is the main reason why open world mmo PvP almost always fails. Levels and gear trump skill in most mmo pvp and it encourages the worst kind of human behavior. That isn't an issue in instanced battlegrounds, since the game forces players of similar gear and levels together. But in open world zones it is a huge problem. For a minority of players, that kind of gank or be ganked gameplay is fun, but for the mass majority of players it is a waste of time.

To make open world PvP work there has to be significant changes to the existing standard mmo design. DAoC, EvE, WAR, Aion, etc., accomplished this somewhat. With DAoC and EvE doing the best at it.

Some of EvE's design can be ported to EQNext while keeping it a primarily PvE game. Creating level restricted zones with unique resources and mobs, then flagging the zones for PvP isn't that hard to do. Or a whole continent. The trick is to give incentives to players to risk it all by playing in a PvP zone, while not handicapping PvE players who are not interested in going to those zones.

Staying away from hard coded factions is critical. 2 faction PvP mmos are instant failures. I would like to see soft factions where getting faction with one NPC set gives you the standard benefits, like in Velious but also gives you some NPC protection while you are there. But leave the choice of faction up the player and let them change factions with enough effort.


PvP in mmos if done right can be a lot of fun, but it is up the the devs to create those systems. Again, EvE and DAoC showed it is very possible and profitable. If the EQNext devs don't have the creativity to do it right though, then they should not even try.

PvPers are DayZ players.

More evidence of Dungeon Maker type garbage coming in EQN:

Someone on Reddit posted that he was concerned about player-made content in EQN because of what he had seen in games like Neverwinter and EQ2's Dungeon Maker. SoE employee then runs in to provide comfort by basically saying, "don't worry we've learned from systems like CoH Mission Architect and EQ2 Dungeon Maker."

Rezz_sl said:

PVP argument is easy. It's a-ok to have on regulated servers where the bottom rung of humanity can congregate. And I am totally ok for there being ruleset servers. But the type of player typically attracted to PVP servers in MMOs is not a counterstrike playing l33t headshotter looking for competition. They are, in the most general sense, dickwads who basically just like taking advantage of broken mechanics and ruining someone else's day. I know, most the people I ran with when I played on PVP servers were like that. There are -always- people who aren't and they should be commended, but having that type of gameplay as the only type of gameplay -will- attract the dickwads. In great numbers. Especially in a game where you can ruin not only someone's day, but ruin the days of everyone around them as well by fucking with some SANDBOX related element?

Thanks, but please keep the asshattery contained as much as possible

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thats an awfully big generalization. The reality is if you arnt playing with a group, then youll encounter people griefing solo players more often. That however doesnt make them the majority of the population on the server.

Dizzam_sl said:

More evidence of Dungeon Maker type garbage coming in EQN:

Someone on Reddit posted that he was concerned about player-made content in EQN because of what he had seen in games like Neverwinter and EQ2's Dungeon Maker. SoE employee then runs in to provide comfort by basically saying, "don't worry we've learned from systems like CoH Mission Architect and EQ2 Dungeon Maker."

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It won't be anything like Dungeon Maker.

Personally, I think they should create conflict between factions with more than just PvP, you should be competing against enemies even in PvE. This could be through resource collection, killing enemy bosses, winning temporary favor with neutral factions, etc.

This would probably be harder to accomplish with EQ-style factions rather than hard-coded factions, though.

mkopec_sl said:

Im not gonna be worried about the dungeon maker crap until its all exposed and we actually have something to talk about.

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8 days

tad10_sl said:

I rarely agree with Rezz but pretty much this. Nirgon you seem like a decent fellow but my experience on PvP servers is one of being ganked and corpse-camped by some much higher level repeatedly, to the point where I just quit.

For PvP to have consequences factions need to matter and PKing someone should cause significant hits to factions related to the killed player- this doesn't preclude declared "wars" between guilds which would have less signficcant faction hits for killing members of the enemy guild.

Click to expand...

I really hope they go with something like that. Gives alot more meaning to the player <-> npc connections, and provides a faux safety siminlar to EVE high sec.