EQ Never

Nirgon_sl said:

Stuff

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PvP is a pointless ego-grind unless it is truly part of the game.

You want to act like a bandit and rob other PCs? Game should treat you like a bandit - you should end up only able to socialize with other player-bandits and NPC bandits.. You basically become a Player run mob out there in the world harassing anyone who comes near. As such, like any other mob, there's no level restrictions you can rob level 1s or level 50s but if you show up in town the entire guard force comes after you and if you're caught it's the gallows for you (6 hours before you can rez on that toon).

Same thing if for some unfathomable reason you want to act like a serial killer in-game (hi2u Dumar and the other guy from UO) the game should treat you like a serial killer. You are KOS to everyone but the the most evil demons/devils in the game as even the average bandit would prefer to just kill you instead of talking to you.

Nobody_sl said:

That's why I played Sullon Zek. None of that nancy-pancy play-friendly bullshit going on there. Dump everyone in the world and figure out your own damn problems.

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Sullon Zek was my home for quite some time once the doors opened and it was definitely one of the most memorable experiences in my MMO gaming history.Interesting readon SZ if you want a bit of nostalgia or background info.

I'm not holding my breath that EQN can replicate my experiences there but I am trying to remain optimistic.

tad10_sl said:

PvP is a pointless ego-grind unless it is truly part of the game.

You want to act like a bandit and rob other PCs? Game should treat you like a bandit - you should end up only able to socialize with other player-bandits and NPC bandits..

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read this, agreed then realized EQ did this with the discord books, which no one seemed to use on PvE servers.

I'd prefer the server on the side with figure out your own damn problems myself. But no hard coded teams, god never again.

Having a server like this is 2 fold beneficial.

#1 - it provides a community for that niche hardcore pvp consumer.
#2 - it pulls all of these "shit bags" (hi!) away from the other servers

Win/win to me

And as far as the game treating you like a bandit..
Becoming known as a PK was pretty much something you couldn't undo. Killing in someone's home towns made you lose faction with said home town.

Nirgon_sl said:

You weren't allowed to corpse camp on RZ unless the person was running their mouth the entire time harassing you on the way to their corpse.

If they politely asked for LNS, you had to give it to them, or take a week in the tank.

It didn't take people long after the first person got banned from doing it after their week suspension to learn it was a no no.

However, there's ways to design around it.

It is up to the person who got killed to leave the zone if they know said person is there, lest they catch an ass beating. It's part of survival, pick your battles not stand there killing mobs pretending you're invisible and someone won't kill you again... cuz they (I) will . Move on over to a different zone until you're ready to contest it or they're done there.

I prefer this type of game to killing 10 mobs that I can kill in 2 hits for a daily quest. Whoopdiedoo, how the hell does anyone find that experience satisfying as being the entire game?

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So its up the the person grieving the dead player to make the call if the dead player gets to play. You sure are twisted and I now assume you were bullied your whole life and want to take out your aggression on other players by grieving them. We always laughed at the cretins on the EQ PVP servers because they really were the worst personalities you could possible fathom. EQ pvp is some of the worst game play I have ever ever experienced, and I only play competitive online games. If you want a real challenge at player vs player, come fly on Waterson in PS2 so I can "Corpse camp" you until you outright quit the game.

And give me one PVP MMORPG that actually survived more than a year solely off its open world PVP. Oh that's right, they all died off.

Nirgon_sl said:

#2 - it pulls all of these "shit bags" (hi!) away from the other servers

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I've known about the PVP'er stereotype for forever, but never encountered it until P99. In general, what an awful group of people to share a community with.

tad10_sl said:

PvP is a pointless ego-grind unless it is truly part of the game.

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PvP is a low dev-time, open ended way to deliver content. One which enough people seem to participate in that every game includes it. Face it, when your rep grinds are done and all you do is raid, you still need something to keep players engaged in in the down time.

And give me one PVP MMORPG that actually survived more than a year solely off its open world PVP. Oh that's right, they all died off.

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well shadowbane existed for 6 or so years. Darkfall was up 3 years before their relaunch as Darkfall: Unholy Wars. Eve is still one of the most successful mmorpgs. Those are some of the more recent examples.

after looking at the list and considering some other games i left out. I think you could argue PvP games have a better rate at succeeding than other mmos.

Red99 is a toilet, and encourages horrible behavior. RZ was not like this. And let me tell you about the PvE community who refuses to buff because they are feeding a baby or "don't tell me what to do" when they've wiped the group several times. They strike me as extremely thin skinned and anything with more spice in their game than ranch dressing sends them packing.

I didn't grief people and corpse camp them unless they had it coming to them in RZ.

Excidium I'm sorry you like a game where you kill mobs in 1-2 hits and they stand around dumbly until you kill them. WoW should have a few more expansions that give a safe, on rails, AFK on flying mount friendly experience. I've said it before though. SC2 was too hardcore of a "push myself up the ladder" experience for me with all the micro and # of games played to rise up. I just couldn't come home after work and keep at that. I'm saying, put this stuff on a separate server, I'm not shoving it down your throat.

Sometimes I detect that mentioning PvP in a game is a quick way to rustle the people who can't deal with the grief of being attacked while doing repetitive questing, to which I wonder, why is this experience so terrible? Do you ever win when you fight back? Why wouldn't you welcome fighting a player as something exciting and fun instead of something that inspires rage and e-tears?

tad10_sl said:

I doubt it will be monetized like that. More like player studio. You can sell a keep wall or wizard tower or big rug. Not whole dungeons. SOE will control content via procedural rules/AI. No 50 ogres in one room to aoe.

edit: maybe you can stick 50 ogres in one room but they won't stay there...

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This is ruining the immersive experience that was to be the Raid On The Mead Hall of the Ogre King adventure!

Byr_sl said:

PvP is a low dev-time, open ended way to deliver content. One which enough people seem to participate in that every game includes it. Face it, when your rep grinds are done and all you do is raid, you still need something to keep players engaged in in the down time.



well shadowbane existed for 6 or so years. Darkfall was up 3 years before their relaunch as Darkfall: Unholy Wars. Eve is still one of the most successful mmorpgs. Those are some of the more recent examples.

after looking at the list and considering some other games i left out. I think you could argue PvP games have a better rate at succeeding than other mmos.

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Both games never did well financially and EVE isn't an MMORPG. So no, they were failures.

Excidium_sl said:

Both games never did well financially and EVE isn't an MMORPG. So no, they were failures.

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eve isnt a mmorpg? im not sure what you think it is.

also your criteria wasnt how well they did financially, it was whether they were up longer than a year. All 3 of which surpass that by quite a margin.

How a pvp mmo does financially has a different measuring stick than a normal WoW clone as well due to it targetting a niche audience.

Excidium_sl said:

Both games never did well financially and EVE isn't an MMORPG. So no, they were failures.

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It doesn't matter. There will be some form of world PvP in EQN. I'm just hoping it's not Nirgon's worldwide gankfest if you're w/n 4 levels and more along the lines of EVE's security sectors where Nirgon can fight over unobtanium in Odus 0.0 whilst I just worry about ogres and gnolls in Qeynos and get my unobtanium from the AH/Bazaar/Traveling Peddler

See, I'm one of those sickos that wants PvP in the towns. I don't believe in safe zones. I do believe in guards that will stomp your head in. But clever tactics outside the guards notice, aw yee.

RZ really wasn't a gankfest.

Red99 was. You need to get that server out of your heads when thinking about EQ PvP.

It was vicious, insane and buggy. To be sure, I did enjoy the early days all the way up to 50 and on until... the shit happened.. but! I'm not advocating anything that savage and cut throat to anyone. Hope I can get a few more RZ heads in here to tell you how great a play experience that server really was.

Nirgon_sl said:

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Why do you assume I want a dumbed-down game? You clearly are passionate on grieving players or your wouldn't start talking nonsense about stuff I never brought up. I had no problems with competition in Arenas or Battlegrounds in PVP. My problem comes from players who use their advantage in gear and levels to deny others the right to play for their only personal satisfaction and I pointed at 2 failed open world PVP MMORPGs as proof that they really only breed retards. I remember the launch of AoC and my god, the amount of douchbaggery was epic. Look at where AoC and Warhammer are now.

Open world PvP in an MMORPG is impossible to balance thus it should never be implemented in a game along side PvE.

Now when your balls finally drop, come play me at a real competitive game where the playing field is equal for all players. No rustled emotions here kid, I put my money where my mouth is.

Excidium_sl said:

I remember the launch of AoC and my god, the amount of douchbaggery was epic. Look at where AoC and Warhammer are now.

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AoC is still up and running after 5 years, even after its disastrous launch which had nothing to do with PvP. Not exactly a good example.

i did not read most of the articles here but they all seem to talk eqNext then talk about EQ and glorify it... is it possible they are actually doing this right ?

http://www.tentonhammer.com/everques...r-epic-weapons

Nirgon_sl said:

See, I'm one of those sickos that wants PvP in the towns. I don't believe in safe zones. I do believe in guards that will stomp your head in. But clever tactics outside the guards notice, aw yee.

RZ really wasn't a gankfest.

Red99 was. You need to get that server out of your heads when thinking about EQ PvP.

It was vicious, insane and buggy. To be sure, I did enjoy the early days all the way up to 50 and on until... the shit happened.. but! I'm not advocating anything that savage and cut throat to anyone. Hope I can get a few more RZ heads in here to tell you how great a play experience that server really was.

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I think we all agree that it is likely that EQN will have FFA PvP ruleset servers. I won't be playing on those servers/that server but I hope you have a ton of fun there.

Nirgon_sl said:

See, I'm one of those sickos that wants PvP in the towns. I don't believe in safe zones. I do believe in guards that will stomp your head in. But clever tactics outside the guards notice, aw yee.

RZ really wasn't a gankfest.

Red99 was. You need to get that server out of your heads when thinking about EQ PvP.

It was vicious, insane and buggy. To be sure, I did enjoy the early days all the way up to 50 and on until... the shit happened.. but! I'm not advocating anything that savage and cut throat to anyone. Hope I can get a few more RZ heads in here to tell you how great a play experience that server really was.

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Yeah, RZ had the least amount of pvp out of all the pvp servers. At least that is what I heard since I played on VZ.

Excidium_sl said:

Both games never did well financially and EVE isn't an MMORPG. .

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What? You could make a case that EVE is more mmorpg then any other mmorpg.

Tad, didn't you say you want EQ:N to be EVE but fantasy based? I'm not sure how you build that kind of game without the pvp portion of the game, which literally keeps the game going without developers having to keep building content and fuels the rest of the game(Trading, crafting etc).

PvPers like me are the griefing, out of control neckbeards (get a load of this Excidium guy).

Not to mention, I do agree servers with these rulesets should be separate. I think people should feel free also to just roll an alt on a pvp server when they get an itch and not necessarily be forced to reach max level. The low lvl pvp is some of the best imo, and I always enjoy the leveling up pvp the most for some reason. It's more variable, spontaneous and everything isn't broken down into a formula yet.

tad10_sl said:

I won't be playing on those servers/that server but I hope you have a ton of fun there.

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And, I similarly hope your experience is made more enjoyable with these types of players on "our" server and not finding other ways to "PvP" on yours.