EQ Never

Raign

Golden Squire
627
86
The best fun that I had in PvP was in Shadowbane (after they fixed the game) Most of it was done at high level, and gear did not matter much. and in WoW battlegrounds in the beginning days.
Did they actually fix that game? I loved it, but oh lord what a buggy bag of shit. I logged in just for shits and giggles about a month before they shut it down and got three sb.exe errors inside of 2 hours. I would have never stopped playing it had it been even remotely stable, some of the siege moments I had on my fury and confessor stand out as some of the best fun I have had in an MMORG.
 

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,236
2,256
Name the pvp game that overtook it? And don't you got Dam dare say eve.
Note : I played EVE super casually for like 2 months so I have no vested interest.

But why can't you say EVE?

I Played DAOC and It was a good game, but it also had a ton of issues and balance problems galore. It was helped by seeming to have no competition for the niche it filled. Trying to think of any other pvp castle/siege type MMO at the time.
 

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,236
2,256
I'll add it's not going to ship complete they're going to ship as soon as they can and we the beta testers and early players get to help fill out the world.
So SOE is allowed to do it, but other companies are roasted alive for doing it. Funny how nostalgia is seemingly overriding the usual cynicism, criticism and anxiety that every other MMO is hit with ;P
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
So SOE is allowed to do it, but other companies are roasted alive for doing it. Funny how nostalgia is seemingly overriding the usual cynicism, criticism and anxiety that every other MMO is hit with ;P
SOE was smart enough to call it a sandbox.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,902
6,888
/shrug

DAoC is still available to play. It still has subs and hasn't resorted to F2P. Yes, it is also very long in the tooth, but nobody has yet made a game better for it's kind of PvP. And as good as EvE is, I still prefer DAoC's combat and action.

Recent mmos (GW2), and upcoming mmos (TESO) have finally gotten a clue that if you are going to have hard coded factions then there has to be at least 3. But GW2's WvW is a very pale imitation of DAoC without any long term appeal. TESO may get it right, I hope so. But given the non stop negative feedback we have so far for that game, I wont be surprised if it's PvP fails.

Nobody has yet made a PvP mmorpg game as good as DAoC. EvE is good but I don't like the actual combat and LoL isn't a mmorpg. What other contenders are there? There must be some, I just can't think of them atm.
 

Dizzam_sl

shitlord
247
0
I posted this back around e3 but eqn creation tools will be much more project spark than dungeon maker.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/...e-lots-to-like
What's the difference? (Genuine question.) Based on my limited knowledge of each, it seems like the only real difference is that Project Spark lets you create a wider variety of things and it allows you do so while in game. My real problem with this kind of player-created content isn't that Dungeon Maker wasn't good enough, it's that it destroys everything a real sandbox is suppose to be about.

I see player-created content fitting largely into one of two categories:

1) Players are basically given a developer tool-kit that can be used to create things, like Smedley said, "out of whole cloth." It could be done in game or out of game, it doesn't matter. You can create new NPC's, give them a name, and use Storybricks AI to give them a "brain." You aren't a part of the world, you're on the outside looking in. Basically, you're a dungeon master. Maybe it's all in one world (server), maybe you are creating your own world.

2) Players are allowed to significantly affect the environment around them through the use of skills, abilities, and common real-life actions, but all of it is done in-game as your character. Druids can create forests by casting spells. Wizards can burn them down using fireballs. Players can learn carpentry and build all kinds of buildings, after gathering the necessary resources. You can pay guards to protect a building, but another player might pay them more to leave their post. Cities are built and then razed through PvP combat. All of these actions take place as part of the game rather than outside of it.

I see both Dungeon Maker and Project Spark falling in option 1, yet option 2 describes what a real sandbox--in my mind--is suppose to be. I was really hopeful that EQN would fit into 2, but now I'm definitely leaning toward 1.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
I see both Dungeon Maker and Project Spark falling in option 1, yet option 2 describes what a real sandbox--in my mind--is suppose to be. I was really hopefully that EQN would fit into 2, but now I'm definitely leaning toward 1.
It's option 2, mostly. I don't know where you got this fixation that player created content has to be instanced. Smedley's examples of world-changing by players were mostly in-world (e.g. burning down a forest). Project Spark-like tools are much better for in-world creation than making seperate planes. I'm not saying there won't be some instanced content in EQN (because clearly there will be) and I'm not saying their won't be some player created content that is instanced (because there might be) but all signs point to most content (whether dev or player-created) being in-world.
 

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,236
2,256
Lol you tad, you are either going to die from a orgasm or from slicing your wrist. You have built up this game in your mind so high, I don't think anyone can make it.

I will say its good to see the usual bashers, cynics who jump on anyone who has ever been excited for a game , being caught up in a hype train(with even less info then any game previously). Instead of calling others fanboys, they are the fanboys this time.
 

Dizzam_sl

shitlord
247
0
It's option 2, mostly. I don't know where you got this fixation that player created content has to be instanced. Smedley's examples of world-changing by players were mostly in-world (e.g. burning down a forest). Project Spark-like tools are much better for in-world creation than making seperate planes. I'm not saying there won't be some instanced content in EQN (because clearly there will be) and I'm not saying their won't be some player created content that is instanced (because there might be) but all signs point to most content (whether dev or player-created) being in-world.
The difference between 1 and 2 isn't instance and non-instance. The difference is whether the changes in the world come about organically through playing the game or whether they are made by a developer (paid or player) who decides "oh, a building would look nice there, I'll just click this building button and place it there."
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
Lol you tad, you are either going to die from a orgasm or from slicing your wrist. You have built up this game in your mind so high, I don't think anyone can make it.
Eh no. I'm pretty sure of about 80% of what we're going to get (seemless world, EVElike PvP, original continents, player created content, storybricks AI mobs, storybricks quests) so I'm mostly interested in that 20% I know I don't know and have been unable to guess at based on the hints, tweets and interviews: things like the "spellweaving" quote, whether it will have OT/DT, whether combat is button mashing or resource management, etc. I will be disappointed if there is no OT/DT and combat is button mashing like Rift.

@Dizzam what are you talking about? If I want to build a keep in the middle of the Karanas how is that "organicallly" going to happen without some button clicking? It is, after all, a PC game. The only thing that matters is whether my button clicking puts it in the world or in its own instance. If you mean I need to pay PP 100,000 to buy a deed for the land and I have to organically earn that PP 100,000 before I can click buttons - eh, okay. I sorta assumed that there would be costs associated with building.
 

Dizzam_sl

shitlord
247
0
@Dizzam what are you talking about? If I want to build a keep in the middle of the Karanas how is that "organicallly" going to happen without some button clicking? It is, after all, a PC game. The only thing that matters is whether my button clicking puts it in the world or in its own instance. If you mean I need to pay PP 100,000 to buy a deed for the land and I have to organically earn that PP 100,000 before I can click buttons - eh, okay. I sorta assumed that there would be costs associated with building.
Not sure how else to explain this; I'll try using your example. If you are running through the Karanas and decide you want to put a keep down, then you should have to have the skill to build it along with the necessary resources and then actually build it. Alternatively, you could pay an NPC or another player who has the skill and resources to do it for you.

But, what you should not be able to do, is pull a Project Spark by opening up a menu of buildings, clicking on keep, then clicking on the land where you want to place it and..voila! A keep! Even worse, but not by much, would be building the keep in the Karanas in some kind of Dungeon Maker program that was outside of the game completely.
 

Carl_sl

shitlord
634
0
Eh no. I'm pretty sure of about 80% of what we're going to get (seemless world, EVElike PvP, original continents, player created content, storybricks AI mobs, storybricks quests) so I'm mostly interested in that 20% I know I don't know and have been unable to guess at based on the hints, tweets and interviews: things like the "spellweaving" quote, whether it will have OT/DT, whether combat is button mashing or resource management, etc. I will be disappointed if there is no OT/DT and combat is button mashing like Rift.

@Dizzam what are you talking about? If I want to build a keep in the middle of the Karanas how is that "organicallly" going to happen without some button clicking? It is, after all, a PC game. The only thing that matters is whether my button clicking puts it in the world or in its own instance. If you mean I need to pay PP 100,000 to buy a deed for the land and I have to organically earn that PP 100,000 before I can click buttons - eh, okay. I sorta assumed that there would be costs associated with building.
I'm guessing he means more, 1)do you go in to an overhead view and slide a ghost representation of what you are going to build around the map until you find a place, click once and poof it's there, or 2)do you buy the plot it's going In then either learn the carpenter profession and build it bit by bit over time like you did in vanguard or pay someone else to do the building.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
Not sure how else to explain this; I'll try using your example. If you are running through the Karanas and decide you want to put a keep down, then you should have to have the skill to build it along with the necessary resources and then actually build it. Alternatively, you could pay an NPC or another player who has the skill and resources to do it for you.
I get what you meant but there's other stuff going on in the background beyond just skilling up in carpentry. A player or dev has to design the keep elements (moat, bridge, main gate, chapel, etc) that's where the project spark/player studio stuff comes into play. We've been talking about two completely different things.
 

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
2,091
312
Depends heavily on the EQN reveal though of course there's always EQMac to fall back on.

Speaking of EQN. I'm now firmly in the Beta starts* on August 6th, release this year if at all possible, early next year if not, camp.

Draegen better get his site up soon.

*Start means a flustercluck with maybe a handful of people actually getting toplaybetatest on the 6th and the rest bitching and moaning until login problems are fixed over the next 3 to 4 days. The screams of people with beta keys but who can't get on due to the login issues will be glorious.
Snap! Don't go full retard. Wait...someone else said that. Hmm
 

Carl_sl

shitlord
634
0
What if "getting your hands and something and no I don't mean a beta test", means some pre release dungeon creator package or something?
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
What if "getting your hands and something and no I don't mean a beta test", means some pre release dungeon creator package or something?
That was my original supposition, but the deleted bit in the last mini-video release convinced me that they expect the players to help them build the world and since it is mostly non-instanced that means building during beta or live.
 

Dizzam_sl

shitlord
247
0
I think it will be some creation tool. Either SoE Player Studio or the EQN version of Dungeon Maker. Beta will be announced as "later this year" only to be delayed into next year.