Malakriss
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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I think if a poll was put up you would find a significant percentage, even if it isn't a majority, that hate the direction they're going.
EQ Never
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Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I'm not just reading these forums tho. There is a pretty large swell of people upset right now. SoE is aware of that and that's why they are dropping more info on the class system. I would not say it's a small group of people but who knows.. maybe SoE marketing can clue me!? =P
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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- 583
They didn't explain crafting. They did explain itemization and some loot.
-Mostly bound (BOE or BOP) loot drops. Forget which panel this was.
-Loot is mostly mechanics based. Think MTG. Ring of -5% movement ability cost, Dwarven Armor that adds an ability.
Lleauaric
Sparkletot Monger
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Look, I agree. If this game is simply 40 different flavors of the same thing, then fuck that. I wont play a zerg DPS spam fest, but I really dont see it that way at the moment, and Im hoping it isnt one.
So you have 5 people grouped... everyone then decides what role they are going to play. Johnny likes healing and is known as a good healer, so he does. Betty likes CC, so thats her primary responsibility. Bob doesnt really care, but he has a good tank set so hell do that. Paul will assist heal and DPS and Fred will just DPS.
30 mins later, Johnny has to go. group picks up a new guy, he doesnt want to heal though. Paul resets his loadout and agrees to prime heal. The new guy likes to tank, so Bob moves over to assist heals and dps. Betty decides she is bored and the mobs coming up go smoother with an offtank, so she gears for offtanking and Fred is asked to work CC for a while.
This would be more workable and I hope what they have in mind.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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- 10,122
And WoW found the solution. Hit your "switch to shadow" button, and start melting faces.
The question isn't about classes, it's about roles.
All Lithose's metaphors of supply lines aside, you can have 6 people soloing the mob together, or a group doing the mob. The difference is that a group should be more than the sum of all six DPS in the group. Meaning you can have content that would absolutely destroy a group of 6 dps trying to solo the mob together, yet falls to a group. That requires having complementary strengths. The trinity is an example of complementary strengths. You have one character that is good at enduring damage, one that can make him better at enduring even more damage (and, in EQ, it was usually the holy quatuor: you had one that reduced incoming damage - we called it the slower).
It is not the only possible set of complementary strengths, but it has one advantage: it's so simple (they even called it "simplistic") that even the average WOW pugger can understand it (mostly), and it is applicable to the immense majority of fights (with a few additions here and there).
The problem with the idea of "flexible tactics" and "adaptable AI" and "varied strategies" is that those things are HARD. For the average gamer, I mean. If you end up with a complete different group dynamic necessary for every 40 opposing class, and most of these dynamics can't be done by your group because you don't have a stunner or a snarer, or whatever, because the dynamic that worked on the mob 1mn ago is useless here... the average MMO player's brain will seize. And after a while, he'll simply quit, because he can't keep his 20 strategies in his mind together. Or, well, the mobs are nerfed until it doesn't really matter which strategy you apply, in which case the complementary strengths is gone, and you're back at GW2-ish "6 people trying to solo the same mob together". Which works, but is not very difficult in the end.
So, either you will end up at that point where it's every kerran for himself, or you will have the same trinity/quatuor dynamics emerge, because there's a simple strategy that applies to the majority of fights, and instead of tank/heal/slower/dps, you will have "main kite/second kite/snarer/dps". And even if the core abilities are tied to class skills rather than weapon skills, you will still end up with requirements that someone has to be the "designated" whatever. And he'd better have ranked his kiting abilities to tier 4 and got the gear, or you can say goodbye to that tier 5 dungeon areas you just excavated.
everyone does everything, circle jerk each other off, realize this is GW2.1 and stop playing after a month. gotcha.
Malakriss
Golden Baronet of the Realm
- 12,580
- 11,919
People want to play a wizard because they want to play a wizard. They don't want to switch to 10 other flavors of magic wielders because the few class abilities wizards have don't mesh well for most of the dungeon.
40+ options won't be "options" they will be filtered and forced makeups based on encounters.
40+ options won't be "options" they will be filtered and forced makeups based on encounters.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Mughal
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Do you have any data or link to back up this statement? If true they would only be able to have AI in small encounters.
If they limit the number of classes you can tier up we will end up with people developing unique characters to a certain degree. On the class panel they talked about deciding on what points to put to which class to tier that up. So I would expect that you could customize your wizard to have some necro based abilities but you could not end up with all full tier classes to change willy-nilly.
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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I also don't know how practical it would be to actually be everything. It would hopefully take a long ass time to get every skill high enough to be useful as well as getting full sets of gear designed for every class.
If someone feels like putting that much time and effort into it then more power to them.
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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I disagree regards to EQ2. While it was incredibly annoying at launch and still has a lot of annoying points, it had some bright moments. There is a lot of EQ2 that gives you that Everquest feel and during the Hartsman era (and possibly this latest expansion) it definitely has some great concepts.
EQ2 is just example of what a first impression can do but if they could ever address their multitude of ability/action bars and their itemization, it would be a solid game. I personally think there was a time it was one of the most underrated MMO's out there and maybe still is...
Anyway, back to the point, initially at EQ2's release and even in its beta, it was Everquest it was just poorly executed.
That's my opinion looking back and comparatively to my (current) impression of EQNext
Teekey
Mr. Poopybutthole
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They really footstomped the idea that the AI is very scaleable. They can make mobs dumb, if they want.
I don't see why there can't be different levels of content. They said they want risk vs reward scenarios. Let Johnny Casual and his rag tag team kill a band of Orcs that are pillaging a farm and earn some meager rewards. But make delving deep into Crushbone and killing Lord Darish or Emperor Crush very difficult and provide much better rewards.
Your faction standing plays a role into what classes you can play at anytime. So in order to do a Wizard/Necro like you mentioned the only way possible is if being a wizard required being evil like a necromancer.
iannis
Musty Nester
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We'll have to see. The danger is that when it is an option for everyone to do "everything" (probably more like 50-60% of everything with the restrictions they're going to put on it to balance abilities) you'll wind up with a situation where very nearly no one wants to do anything except DPS.
The abstract idea is workable. Depends a lot on specifics. But if DCUO is any indication (a game where everyone can do 2/3 of anything by hitting a button, and everyone can play DPS, and 90% of the playerbase doesn't want to hit the button)... the "community" will shit all over the design.
So you hardcore EQ1 nerds might get your wish after all, tbh. I can see how a setup like this would create one of the most insular games since EQ1. You're talking serious word of mouth community.
The abstract idea is workable. Depends a lot on specifics. But if DCUO is any indication (a game where everyone can do 2/3 of anything by hitting a button, and everyone can play DPS, and 90% of the playerbase doesn't want to hit the button)... the "community" will shit all over the design.
So you hardcore EQ1 nerds might get your wish after all, tbh. I can see how a setup like this would create one of the most insular games since EQ1. You're talking serious word of mouth community.
Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Hartsman did a great job of making EQ2 fun again. Before that, it sucked. I even said it on FOH and got a response, EQ2 design was so controlled, that it wasn't fun. Scott made a bunch of changes on controls, so the game allowed for more emergent gameplay. Original EQ2 was so tight that Hitler would be proud.
It could be more controlled than that too, they mentioned decisions and consequences, so you might not be able to tier up each class to unlock all that class's abilities.