Health Care Thread
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
fanaskin
Well known agitator
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chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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Royal
Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
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Perhaps because no one on that side disagreed with that aspect of it. Every major health care reform proposed by Democrats involves some form of universal participation/individual mandate.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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You only think that because you inhabit a board that is so far left of mainstream that you all think real centrists are Tea Party fanatics. Very few individuals follow the left or right mantra completely. But minor individual differences don't change a persons basic nature or a zebra's stripes.
Just a perusal of Araysar's posts proves that he is anything but a centrist. the same goes for most of the rest of you. Most of the political posters on this board have their heads so far up Obama's ass they can't see daylight. America is tired of the extremes from both sides. The next president will be someone who truly bridges both sides and doen't give it bullshit lip service like Obama or the Tea Party, etc. Most Americans are not extremists. The far left and the far right are just a small minority.
Hillary doesn't have a lot of friends on the far right but she is prectical and she has the blueprint Bill forged by working with everyone to go from. And I think many of the Tea Party folks will be replaced anyways. The center is going to come back, it has to, the extreme morons are useless.
Royal
Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
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I was limiting it to evaluating her within the health care arena because this is ... ya know ... the Obamacare thread. Were she to become President, she'll be as effective advancing her agenda as the balance of power within Congress allows her to be. The Republicans will dig their heels in with her just as deeply as they have with Obama if they have the ability to do so (because that's what opposition party's do, even Democrats). People seem to have forgotten how incredibly reviled she was on the right when she was First Lady. I didn't care for her much myself back then and I'm not so sure she'll have improved with time should she return to the White House. Republicans will certainly have no problem energizing their base in opposition to her.
I happen to agree with you that she probably would have been more effective at governance than Obama has been had she managed to win the Presidency instead of him. I'm just saying that had she decided to go back to the well on health care as President, people who dislike Obamacare wouldn't be any happier with what she would have produced (I just doubt she would have tried in the first place).
Errr how is Hillary any more to the center then Obama, can you actually provide me with concrete evidence of this? All this talk of Obama being far left is happy horseshit made up by republican. Half the stuff he does is far more republican then most "liberals" would like.
If you think Hilary would have been a better choice that's fine but don't spout bullshit along with it.
Khane
Got something right about marriage
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Late response because I forgot I even posted in this thread but yes, plans that qualify for an HSA. Premiums never include any contributions to an HSA, they are just premiums you are paying to the insurance company. Your employer (if you have an HSA) may take money out each pay check as a direct deposit into an HSA but it's separate from the insurance premium you pay.
I had never heard of a plan like that before this. Were there really high deductible insurance plans that even after you hit the deductible you still had co-pays? By the way I'm talking about co-pays and not coinsurance. Having to pay coinsurance after meeting your deductible would make a high deductible plan completely goddamn worthless over an HMO or PPO. Did people really do this? There were always situations with certain prescriptions that had a small co-pay after the deductible but it was separate and had a spending cap before 100% was covered as well. But all doctor and emergency visits were 100% after I hit my deductible.
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
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Pretty sure you think modern guns were manufactured gay. Breechloaders, the lot of them. But them front stuffers are as hetero as it gets.
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
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No I genuinely don't understand what you were asking. At first I thought you were doing one of those "has anyone ever been so far as to" things. Then I realized you were asking me something, so I figured I'd give you a chance to fix it.
But now I'm wondering, what was your opinion of me? Must have been pretty high if catching a mistake reinforces it. Do you think I was really bright, or really thoughtful, or something? Probably really thoughtful. I guess a lot of people would have probably just skimmed your question and answered whatever they felt like answering, instead of asking for clarification.
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
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Huh? If he didn't disagree with it, why did he say this in one of his ads? "Hillary Clinton's attacking, but what's she not telling you about her health care plan? It forces everyone to buy insurance, even if you can't afford it, and you pay a penalty if you don't,"
I don't think you understand WTF you're responding to.
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
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Charles Ponzi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
LOL. Tell me the functional differences between a ponzi scheme and social security. Can't say its OK just because the government is doing it. With either one, the people at the bottom when it finally goes bust will be right and truly fucked.
The only real difference is that the government forces you to participate, ponzi tricks you into participating. Guess which one I think is worse.
Royal
Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
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People who rarely if ever go to the doctor would opt for this kind of policy because the premiums are, generally, extremely low compared to other policies. We have a high deductible plan at work (which has a 20% coinsurance requirement up to the out of pocket limit after the deductible is reached) and the people who take it are typically those that are younger and single. The premium is roughly 10% of that of the next cheapest plan.
Who needs to make the stuff up? Don't look at what he says, look at what he does. Jesus christ, you should be proud of him Karloff. Embrace your socialist policies, don't hide from them pretending to support "centrist" views.
Liberals of course deny that President Obama is a Socialist. They laugh at that idea. They call it silly, comical, absurd, ridiculous. But they know that the word "Socialist" is toxic in American politics. So it's important for them to deny that Obama is a Socialist.
What bothers me is when conservatives go along with that argument. Virtually every conservative I know believes that Obama is a Socialist, but they're afraid to say it in the media- for fear it might sound "extreme" and make them look silly.
I have no such problem. The key is not to just call Obama a Socialist. You have to prove the label is true and accurate.
The reason many ultra-liberals and actual Socialists deny Obama is a Socialist is because he doesn't go far enough for them. To them, he is a moderate uniter, compromiser, and appeaser. Obama is simply too nice and too willing to compromise his principles to be a Socialist. But they miss the brilliant strategy. Obama is achieving what they never could. Obama understands how to play the game. He understands how to disguise his intentions and compromise to achieve incremental success. To move the ball down the field towards the eventual goal of Socialism. It doesn't happen with one Hail Mary pass. It doesn't happen if you admit you are a Socialist. It happens slowly, with patience and discipline. That's what makes Obama the most dangerous Socialist this country has ever seen.
First, let's prove that Obama is a Socialist. To do that we must examine Socialism.
One of Socialism's central tenets is demonization of the wealthy. Sound familiar? Obama plays the game of class warfare like no politician in history. His entire agenda is about targeting, demonizing, denigrating and punishing the rich. For Obama hunting the rich is a sport. It's like shooting rich people in a barrel.
Another central tenet of Socialism is redistribution of wealth, accomplished in several ways. First, raise taxes to outlandish levels. A socialist thinks what's yours, belongs to the state. If Obama has his way we'll all be paying tax rates in the range of 70% or higher, while losing all deductions. Obama's answer for every problem is taxes. Every speech is about taxes. Every State of the Union is about taxes. Some people play golf, others play tennis. Obama's hobby is raising taxes.
But, if a Socialist President is blocked from raising taxes by a Republican Congress, there are other ways to skin the taxpayer. He can erode the lifetime savings and assets of Americans by asking the Fed to print trillions of dollars of fake money. Inflation is a stealth way to bankrupt anyone with income and assets (i.e. the rich) - without ever raising a tax.
Just as effective is spending the country into bankruptcy. Obama has added over $5 trillion to the national debt in only three years (primarily to buy votes) in the form of stimulus, green energy "investment," entitlements, food stamps, supporting illegal immigrants, free cell phones, free healthcare. That debt overwhelms the system and cripples the economy. Obama is enslaving our children and grandchildren to big government and big taxes for years to come. Sound familiar? Obama is busy overwhelming the system right now.
Socialism is assured when a majority of citizens become dependent on big government and are "bribed" to keep voting for the candidates that promise to keep the goodies and bribes coming. Sound familiar?
Or, government can just pass so many new rules and regulations that it's impossible to do business anymore, thereby wiping out small business, jobs, and the U.S. economy. For all intents and purposes, we become slaves and our master is the EPA or National Labor Relations Board. With business failing, we all become dependent on government jobs or entitlements to put food on the table. Sound familiar? Obama has enacted 60,000 new rules in only three years. A private company (Boeing) was stopped by Obama's NLRB from opening a plant in a non-union state. This sure sounds like government control over the economy to me.
Socialism is about government control. It doesn't have to be a direct takeover. Government can bail out Wall Street, banks, mortgage providers like Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, insurance giants like AIG, and automakers like GM & Chrysler. The result is government control through intimidation and coercion. Soon government is demanding student loans be forgiven, contraception be provided for free, people who don't pay their mortgages be allowed to stay in their homes, and electric cars be manufactured - even if no one wants them. Sound familiar?
Socialists also violate private property rights. Obama did that when he stole GM and Chrysler from its investors and shareholders and awarded ownership to his auto union buddies. He's doing it again by demanding private insurers provide free contraception.
Socialists discredit the opposition. Obama had Homeland Security put out directives to law enforcement declaring Libertarians, conservatives, and Tea Partiers as possible domestic terrorists.
Socialists take away civil rights. Obama extended and expanded the Patriot Act to listen to our calls and emails without warrants. He signed legislation to allow for indefinite detention of U.S. citizens without charges. And, his Obamacare bill allows for the creation of a civilian defense force on U.S. soil that answers to.guess who? The President.
Socialists want to control and censor the media. Obama supports the Fairness Doctrine, which would cripple conservative talk radio. Meanwhile his bailout of newspapers and GE, parent of NBC, CNBC and MSNBC, allows government to manipulate and intimidate the media. And of course Obama has Hollywood under his thumb.
Yes, Obama is definitely a Socialist. But he's a stealth Socialist. He believes in achieving his goals slowly, subtly. He believes in hiding and disguising his intentions. He believes in incremental success. If this was football, Obama would run a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" offense. Just keep moving the ball slowly towards the goal line. He's smarter than any Socialist we've ever seen. He understands you can't destroy America by making it clear your intent is to destroy America.
And you can't be re-elected if voters can clearly see that you are a Socialist. So you bob and weave, lie and deceive.put on a $2500 suit and silk tie.smile at all times.kiss babies and hug middle Americans.play with your dog Bo.trot out your two sweet daughters.and talk about "fairness" a hundred times a day.
Four years ago Obama slipped up and said "I just want to spread the wealth around." Just days ago he slipped up again, when an open microphone caught him telling the Russian President to just be patient. "I've an election to win then I'll have more flexibility."
This is the Obama plan. A second term so he can finish off what he started. Make 12 million illegal immigrants - disproportionate recipients of government programs - into voting citizens. Ban all oil drilling and watch gas soar to unimagined heights. Ban gun ownership. Raise taxes to levels that will destroy entrepreneurship and starve his political opposition. Make unions the most powerful force in the economy. Intimidate big business into supporting his agenda. Silence conservative talk radio. Give our military secrets to the Russians. Without having to ever face another election, Obama is free to be the real Obama for the first time.
Liberals, Obama defenders, and even Socialists are right about one thing. Obama is no ordinary Socialist. Obama is a hybrid. He is a Socialist/Marxist/Fascist/and Corporatist all rolled into one. And that, my friends, is the deadliest breed America has ever seen.
Wayne Allyn Root is a former Libertarian vice presidential nominee.
What bothers me is when conservatives go along with that argument. Virtually every conservative I know believes that Obama is a Socialist, but they're afraid to say it in the media- for fear it might sound "extreme" and make them look silly.
I have no such problem. The key is not to just call Obama a Socialist. You have to prove the label is true and accurate.
The reason many ultra-liberals and actual Socialists deny Obama is a Socialist is because he doesn't go far enough for them. To them, he is a moderate uniter, compromiser, and appeaser. Obama is simply too nice and too willing to compromise his principles to be a Socialist. But they miss the brilliant strategy. Obama is achieving what they never could. Obama understands how to play the game. He understands how to disguise his intentions and compromise to achieve incremental success. To move the ball down the field towards the eventual goal of Socialism. It doesn't happen with one Hail Mary pass. It doesn't happen if you admit you are a Socialist. It happens slowly, with patience and discipline. That's what makes Obama the most dangerous Socialist this country has ever seen.
First, let's prove that Obama is a Socialist. To do that we must examine Socialism.
One of Socialism's central tenets is demonization of the wealthy. Sound familiar? Obama plays the game of class warfare like no politician in history. His entire agenda is about targeting, demonizing, denigrating and punishing the rich. For Obama hunting the rich is a sport. It's like shooting rich people in a barrel.
Another central tenet of Socialism is redistribution of wealth, accomplished in several ways. First, raise taxes to outlandish levels. A socialist thinks what's yours, belongs to the state. If Obama has his way we'll all be paying tax rates in the range of 70% or higher, while losing all deductions. Obama's answer for every problem is taxes. Every speech is about taxes. Every State of the Union is about taxes. Some people play golf, others play tennis. Obama's hobby is raising taxes.
But, if a Socialist President is blocked from raising taxes by a Republican Congress, there are other ways to skin the taxpayer. He can erode the lifetime savings and assets of Americans by asking the Fed to print trillions of dollars of fake money. Inflation is a stealth way to bankrupt anyone with income and assets (i.e. the rich) - without ever raising a tax.
Just as effective is spending the country into bankruptcy. Obama has added over $5 trillion to the national debt in only three years (primarily to buy votes) in the form of stimulus, green energy "investment," entitlements, food stamps, supporting illegal immigrants, free cell phones, free healthcare. That debt overwhelms the system and cripples the economy. Obama is enslaving our children and grandchildren to big government and big taxes for years to come. Sound familiar? Obama is busy overwhelming the system right now.
Socialism is assured when a majority of citizens become dependent on big government and are "bribed" to keep voting for the candidates that promise to keep the goodies and bribes coming. Sound familiar?
Or, government can just pass so many new rules and regulations that it's impossible to do business anymore, thereby wiping out small business, jobs, and the U.S. economy. For all intents and purposes, we become slaves and our master is the EPA or National Labor Relations Board. With business failing, we all become dependent on government jobs or entitlements to put food on the table. Sound familiar? Obama has enacted 60,000 new rules in only three years. A private company (Boeing) was stopped by Obama's NLRB from opening a plant in a non-union state. This sure sounds like government control over the economy to me.
Socialism is about government control. It doesn't have to be a direct takeover. Government can bail out Wall Street, banks, mortgage providers like Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, insurance giants like AIG, and automakers like GM & Chrysler. The result is government control through intimidation and coercion. Soon government is demanding student loans be forgiven, contraception be provided for free, people who don't pay their mortgages be allowed to stay in their homes, and electric cars be manufactured - even if no one wants them. Sound familiar?
Socialists also violate private property rights. Obama did that when he stole GM and Chrysler from its investors and shareholders and awarded ownership to his auto union buddies. He's doing it again by demanding private insurers provide free contraception.
Socialists discredit the opposition. Obama had Homeland Security put out directives to law enforcement declaring Libertarians, conservatives, and Tea Partiers as possible domestic terrorists.
Socialists take away civil rights. Obama extended and expanded the Patriot Act to listen to our calls and emails without warrants. He signed legislation to allow for indefinite detention of U.S. citizens without charges. And, his Obamacare bill allows for the creation of a civilian defense force on U.S. soil that answers to.guess who? The President.
Socialists want to control and censor the media. Obama supports the Fairness Doctrine, which would cripple conservative talk radio. Meanwhile his bailout of newspapers and GE, parent of NBC, CNBC and MSNBC, allows government to manipulate and intimidate the media. And of course Obama has Hollywood under his thumb.
Yes, Obama is definitely a Socialist. But he's a stealth Socialist. He believes in achieving his goals slowly, subtly. He believes in hiding and disguising his intentions. He believes in incremental success. If this was football, Obama would run a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" offense. Just keep moving the ball slowly towards the goal line. He's smarter than any Socialist we've ever seen. He understands you can't destroy America by making it clear your intent is to destroy America.
And you can't be re-elected if voters can clearly see that you are a Socialist. So you bob and weave, lie and deceive.put on a $2500 suit and silk tie.smile at all times.kiss babies and hug middle Americans.play with your dog Bo.trot out your two sweet daughters.and talk about "fairness" a hundred times a day.
Four years ago Obama slipped up and said "I just want to spread the wealth around." Just days ago he slipped up again, when an open microphone caught him telling the Russian President to just be patient. "I've an election to win then I'll have more flexibility."
This is the Obama plan. A second term so he can finish off what he started. Make 12 million illegal immigrants - disproportionate recipients of government programs - into voting citizens. Ban all oil drilling and watch gas soar to unimagined heights. Ban gun ownership. Raise taxes to levels that will destroy entrepreneurship and starve his political opposition. Make unions the most powerful force in the economy. Intimidate big business into supporting his agenda. Silence conservative talk radio. Give our military secrets to the Russians. Without having to ever face another election, Obama is free to be the real Obama for the first time.
Liberals, Obama defenders, and even Socialists are right about one thing. Obama is no ordinary Socialist. Obama is a hybrid. He is a Socialist/Marxist/Fascist/and Corporatist all rolled into one. And that, my friends, is the deadliest breed America has ever seen.
Wayne Allyn Root is a former Libertarian vice presidential nominee.
Burnem Wizfyre
Log Wizard
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Define socialist, give examples of socialism. Maybe next time you are waiting 6hrs in line for your free hand outs see if you can figure out what you are waiting for is a part of socialism.
Oh so you mean "job creators" hire and fire based on demand and not because they have free capital? Imagine that!?
Brahma
Obi-Bro Kenobi-X
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I voted no some time ago.
My job just sent out a global email that our benefits will be going thru some changes this open enrollment. None positive. They specifically pointed to Obamacare for the changes.
My deductible goes from 250 to 500/1000 come the new year. Depending on the plan you choose.
My copays are going from 5 bucks up to 10/15.
Overall this will cost me about 125 bucks more a month.
My health care benefits were phenomenal. Now they will just be pretty good. My biggest beef is that I always chose the PPO, so I could go directly to a specialist if I wanted to, without all the referral crap. Now to offset that 150 I may just go with the lesser options.
Thx Obama!
My job just sent out a global email that our benefits will be going thru some changes this open enrollment. None positive. They specifically pointed to Obamacare for the changes.
My deductible goes from 250 to 500/1000 come the new year. Depending on the plan you choose.
My copays are going from 5 bucks up to 10/15.
Overall this will cost me about 125 bucks more a month.
My health care benefits were phenomenal. Now they will just be pretty good. My biggest beef is that I always chose the PPO, so I could go directly to a specialist if I wanted to, without all the referral crap. Now to offset that 150 I may just go with the lesser options.
Thx Obama!
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Ponzi schemes eventually run out of people to add to the mix which creates their downfall... One has a finite pool to draw upon, the other has an infinite pool to draw upon.
Also, technically speaking Social Security has a multiple year surplus (that was up to nearly a full LIFETIME of surplus at one point before executive discretionary spending from it was allowed as a means of curbing tax rates...) that will be gone before the Boomers die off but once they're gone will start building again...