Health Care Thread

Hoss

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Royal_sl said:
People who rarely if ever go to the doctor would opt for this kind of policy because the premiums are, generally, extremely low compared to other policies. We have a high deductible plan at work (which has a 20% coinsurance requirement up to the out of pocket limit after the deductible is reached) and the people who take it are typically those that are younger and single. The premium is roughly 10% of that of the next cheapest plan.
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That's interesting. At my work, it seems to be the older people who go for the HD/HSA plans. Maybe we have different standards for old. From information collected around the water cooler, I'd say almost no one under 35 at my workplace went with that, and around half of the people from 35 to 55. We have a few older gents who I don't have any idea about. Also, women don't seem to favor the HD plans much.

Everyone should opt for this type of policy. My premiums plus the max contribution is less than what my co workers are paying for the PPO or HMO plan. If that math changes, I will be pissed, but I'll re-evaluate.
 
Juvarisx

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Hoss_sl said:
You're kinda stupid if you're implying that social security and medicare are some sort of handout, or even voluntary.
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They are typically not hand outs but medicare does cover the poor and disabled and they are absolutely socialist policies. I can't opt out of the Canadian single payer system and my taxes go to fund the single payer system, but Single payer healthcare is defiantly socialism.

Actually never mind you are just stupid, SS is not a ponzi scheme, dunno why I even bothered to respond.
 
Hoss

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Vaclav_sl said:
Ponzi schemes eventually run out of people to add to the mix which creates their downfall... One has a finite pool to draw upon, the other has an infinite pool to draw upon.

Also, technically speaking Social Security has a multiple year surplus (that was up to nearly a full LIFETIME of surplus at one point before executive discretionary spending from it was allowed as a means of curbing tax rates...) that will be gone before the Boomers die off but once they're gone will start building again...
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You think we have an infinite pool of victims to pay for SS? The number of workers has to increase every year just to keep pace (doesn't it take like 5 or 6 workers to pay back whats owed to one SS retiree?). And you think that's possible? That number will go up as people start living longer. Oh wait, 0care death panels. Maybe it will all work out.

Also, technically speaking, for a short time, ponzi was making money with people's investments, and for a long time, had enough money to pay everyone back. His scheme only went bankrupt because he was arrested. I fail to see how that proves SS isn't a ponzi scheme.
 
Hoss

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Juvarisx_sl said:
They are typically not hand outs but medicare does cover the poor and disabled and they are absolutely socialist policies. I can't opt out of the Canadian single payer system and my taxes go to fund the single payer system, but Single payer healthcare is defiantly socialism.

Actually never mind you are just stupid, SS is not a ponzi scheme, dunno why I even bothered to respond.
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But the way you said it, you acted like it was some sort of option. As if they were hypocrites for screaming about socialism while taking part in these socialist programs. That's why I asked.

It's OK that you're afraid to think about the SS/Ponzi thing. I know you got nothing except that the government runs it and therefore it must be good.
 
fanaskin

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Juvarisx_sl said:
Actually never mind you are just stupid, SS is not a ponzi scheme, dunno why I even bothered to respond.
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Why don't u think its a Ponzi scheme almost all the checks are transfer payments, nothing is actually, saved all the bonds in the fund are ious, the money there was already spent and replaced with bonds that have no backing against them besides a promise to pay, they are an accounting fiction, FDR lied when he mislead the nation that the country would save their money for them. fundamentally they can only be repaid by government raising money through other means to pay them.

Social Security Trust Fund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The most difficult hurdle for claiming that the Trust Fund is not a fiction is the fact that redeeming Trust Fund bonds will be indistinguishable from how the federal government finds any other new revenues: raises taxes, borrows more, or uses surpluses from other programs.
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Khane

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Hoss_sl said:
Also, technically speaking, for a short time, ponzi was making money with people's investments, and for a long time, had enough money to pay everyone back. His scheme only went bankrupt because he was arrested. I fail to see how that proves SS isn't a ponzi scheme.
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Read that entire wikipedia page on him, he was only able to pay certain investors back because most people weren't pulling their money out and more people were giving him money. He was robbing Peter to pay Paul. The guy was millions of dollars in debt (in the 1920's) and... he was arrested for a reason. What he was doing was legal but he was operating at a loss and then defrauding his investors
 
Vaclav

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Hoss_sl said:
You think we have an infinite pool of victims to pay for SS? The number of workers has to increase every year just to keep pace (doesn't it take like 5 or 6 workers to pay back whats owed to one SS retiree?). And you think that's possible? That number will go up as people start living longer. Oh wait, 0care death panels. Maybe it will all work out.

Also, technically speaking, for a short time, ponzi was making money with people's investments, and for a long time, had enough money to pay everyone back. His scheme only went bankrupt because he was arrested. I fail to see how that proves SS isn't a ponzi scheme.
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Its just recently passed or gotten to 3:1 in the past few years, program is designed to expect 2.2:1 roughly (remember, some die young). 5:1 is the worst projection of the Boomers retiring, and will be back under 3:1 by 2035 once they're mostly dead

You do realize the size of the Boomers generation compared to our generation is the issue causing it stress, right? Not that the formula was bad
 
Vaclav

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TheBeagle_sl said:
You can't break through the conserve-a-bubble with facts, numbers, and logic. Stop trying.
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Well technically the "conserve-a-bubble" is right that it's (slightly) off, but it's just a matter of compensating for a short term issue not that it's inherently permanently flawed. The system needs to be more elastic and adjusted in proper advance of demographic shifts like the Boomer generation represents.

Saying they're just wrong would be disingenuous and counterproductive, facts are it does have some issues that need to be ironed out in some way (there's tons of methods on how - AARP has a great "fix SSI" calculator toy thing I could find later if people care) but they're pretty trivial to accomplish with minimal pain. But there are absolutely issues where it will be a huge deficit factor if we just say "Well, we'll not adjust it and let the Fed cover the loss".
 
Grim1

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TheBeagle_sl said:
You can't break through the conserve-a-bubble with facts, numbers, and logic. Stop trying.
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Interesting quote from slashdot.org

"There are more lines of code in Healthcare.gov (500m!) than Google Chrome, the Linux kernel, XP, Facebook, Mac OS, and the Debian 5 packages combined:

http://www.alexmarchant.com/blog/201...omparison.html[alexmarchant.com]

Windows 8 supposed has 80m lines of code:
To fix Obamacare website, blow it up - Oct. 23, 2013[cnn.com]

It would take a miracle of computing programming and program management that no governmental program has ever accomplished to get this epic cluster f*ck fixed in 2-3 months.

If they actually want it to work, it should be taken out behind the shed, shot in the head, hung, drawn, quartered, burned, and the ashes scattered to the four winds. And then everyone starts over. And then take 2 years (minimum) to recode it again with an almost entirely new team. But that's not going to happen. They're going to try and band-aid it, and it won't work.

So things are going to get interesting. It's unfixable in a politically acceptable way for the Democrats and the Obama administration."




It doesn't matter what side of the isle you are on, or if you play both sides against the middle (my usual mo). If you are truly an honest person and semi intelligent, then you knew that ObamaCare was a disaster a long time ago.
 
Araysar

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Grim1_sl said:
Interesting quote from slashdot.org

"There are more lines of code in Healthcare.gov (500m!) than Google Chrome, the Linux kernel, XP, Facebook, Mac OS, and the Debian 5 packages combined:

http://www.alexmarchant.com/blog/201...omparison.html[alexmarchant.com]

Windows 8 supposed has 80m lines of code:
To fix Obamacare website, blow it up - Oct. 23, 2013[cnn.com]

It would take a miracle of computing programming and program management that no governmental program has ever accomplished to get this epic cluster f*ck fixed in 2-3 months.

If they actually want it to work, it should be taken out behind the shed, shot in the head, hung, drawn, quartered, burned, and the ashes scattered to the four winds. And then everyone starts over. And then take 2 years (minimum) to recode it again with an almost entirely new team. But that's not going to happen. They're going to try and band-aid it, and it won't work.

So things are going to get interesting. It's unfixable in a politically acceptable way for the Democrats and the Obama administration."




It doesn't matter what side of the isle you are on, or if you play both sides against the middle (my usual mo). If you are truly an honest person and semi intelligent, then you knew that ObamaCare was a disaster a long time ago.
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So what you're telling us is that we shouldnt have let the private sector build it?
 
Grim1

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Lol, and I suppose you think the feds could have done better?... HAHAHAHAH

quick little fact for you. It WAS the fed's show and they blew it. You can't manage if you don't have a clue.
 
Tuco

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500m lines of code wtf. How much of it was assembly code generated by wordpress templates made in dreamweaver?
 
Araysar

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Grim1_sl said:
Lol, and I suppose you think the feds could have done better?... HAHAHAHAH

quick little fact for you. It WAS the fed's show and they blew it. You can't manage if you don't have a clue.
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Arent Republicans like you always telling us how the private sector is more efficient?

The fed gave the contract to a private sector company to build it. Why did the private sector write 500 million lines of code?
 
Tuco

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Araysar_sl said:
Arent Republicans like you always telling us how the private sector is more efficient?

The fed gave the contract to a private sector company to build it. Why did the private sector write 500 million lines of code?
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because the govt paid per line!
 
Araysar

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Its a cute little game he is playing.

If the private sector screwed up the website, then its the government's fault for not managing them correctly. If the government wrote the code then it's the government's fault for writing shitty code.

In either case, the government is always at fault and the corporations are always absolved of their mistakes. This is from the guy who has been repeatedly telling us that he is a centrist, and we are all leftist extremists.
 
Grim1

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Araysar_sl said:
Arent Republicans like you always telling us how the private sector is more efficient?

The fed gave the contract to a private sector company to build it. Why did the private sector write 500 million lines of code?
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I thought you said you were a Republican? Were you lying? Don't bother answering, we all know who you are.

Does voting for Democrats make me a Republican? Or does voting for Republicans make me a Democrat?

I don't look at the symbol next to their name, I research each individual and vote accordingly. And If I don't have time to research the canidates, or don't like the choices, then I skip that box. Living in San Diego that means I usually vote Democrat. But not always.

For example: I never believed in Filner, so didn't vote for Mayor last time around. etc, etc. The best person gets my vote or nobody does. If you were a decent human being then you would do the same. So should all human beings. Picking a side and running with it regardless of the damage it does to everyone else is bullshit and childish. Evolve and prove it.
 
Araysar

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Grim1_sl said:
I thought you said you were a Republican? Were you lying? Don't bother answering, we all know who you are.

Does voting for Democrats make me a Republican? Or does voting for Republicans make me a Democrat?

I don't look at the symbol next to their name, I research each individual and vote accordingly. And If I don't have time to research the canidates, or don't like the choices, then I skip that box. Living in San Diego that means I usually vote Democrat. But not always.

For example: I never believed in Filner, so didn't vote for Mayor last time around. etc, etc. The best person gets my vote or nobody does. If you were a decent human being then you would do the same. So should all human beings. Picking a side and running with it regardless of the damage it does to everyone else is bullshit and childish. Evolve and prove it.
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Never said I was a Republican. You feeling alright?

You also never answered my question. I'll just assume it was an oversight. Here, let me ask again.

Why did a private company write 500 million lines of code for their client? I have been told all this time that leaving everything to the private sector would be the most efficient and cheapest way of running things.
 
Grim1

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Why did the same private company get a no-bid contract for the job? Who in the administration had close ties to said company?

The whole process was corrupt from the beginning. Blaming it on the private sector is just another moronic attempt by you to ignore the real issues.

The project should not have been "given" to a political friend of the administration. That was the first mistake. But corruption runs deep in government on both sides of the isle and the current group of idiots love it more than most.

Secondly, it should have been overseen by someone in the Feds who had an actual clue, not some Obama toadie who's only job is to shine his (or her) nose on Obama's behind.

Third and most important. It should never have been undertaken in the first place. The whole premise was doomed from the start because the ACA is a hodgpodge of idiotic dreams taken from corrupt politicians trying to get an attaboy back home. Nobody expected this version to become law. It was supposed to go to reconciliation and be fixed with in conferance with the appropriate problems worked out.

But the liberal state of Massachusetts said fuck you to the democrats and voted Scott Brown in for one purpose.... to stop the Obamination called the Affordable Care Act. This version was never intended to be law, it was an abortion from the start.
 
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