Health Care Thread

Araysar

Loser Araysar

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Grim1_sl said:
Actually what I said was "Almost everyone in Germany voted for Hitler also...".

But that was wrong, what I should have said is that "most people in Germany supported Hitler" which was true. Especially after he reigned in inflation and negated the over bearing terms of the loss in WWI after he took over.

They overlooked his treatment of Jews, his invasion of Poland, and they lived with his lies, because they were much like you... cowards.
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Wow, it seems like you are wrong quite often. Wrong yesterday about ACA reconciliation, wrong today about the 1933 election. Maybe instead of berating people here and accusing them of being duped and being coawards, that you check yourself first. Seems like your political and historical knowledge is quite spotty.

By the way, even with your revision of "Most people supported Hitler" it still wouldnt be true because "most" implies 50%+ and as we know, 43.91% is a bit short of that. Additionally, that 43.91% was achieved with widespread violence and intimidation so the actual support was probably significantly less.

P.S. The word you're looking for is "reined in", not "reigned in". Gotta watch out for those spelling errors.
 
Grim1

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Vaclav_sl said:
Plenty of people spoke out against Hitler - the military was in lockstep with him, the populace as a whole was quite mixed. It's pretty well covered that there were dozens of people in support of the people over the Nazis during the time, amongst other things networks of people hiding Jewish folk, etc.
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Not enough people were against Hitler openly to matter. Most people, like those on this board, are cowards. They don't have the balls to fight when the chips are down.

And many, like those on this board, actually are happy when their leaders lie, as long as it promotes their self interests.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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BoldW_sl said:
Sorry to interrupt the bashing fun, but how is a catastrophic plan a ripoff? It makes the most sense for the healthy and young. It's true insurance against the unforeseen, meaning one breaks a leg or gets a disease its taken care of. The only argument given by aray and his fanboy was: LOL catistrophic.

And eff you for shitting it up for three pages..
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Well you see most catastrophic plans used to have a "Drop at anytime clause" and with the high deductibles they carry their normal plan was to drop you as soon as you hit the deductible even once while the plans did basically nothing until you hit the deductible.

So you'd be paying $50/mo or whatever towards the plan, then the minute they started to payout a dime they'd drop you the first chance you got - and longterm care (which most catastrophic issues require!) is absolutely never in their domain - and most times for an injury the longterm care is 5-10x the cost of the actual incident itself. (up to 100x in the case of things that require dialysis and the like)

They're a suckers game - I saw a report a number of years about them when they were first starting to popularize that ran through the odds on actually ever breaking even on your policy, normal insurance policies run about 60-70% slightly in the consumers favor - catastrophic was in the high 90% range of being in the INSURANCE COMPANY'S favor - because the deck is entirely stacked in their favor, you have to pay in for years and since they can drop you any time the minute they even sniff that they could lose money on you they drop the policy. (And most of them even had a "build up" time where you had limited coverage the first 1-2 years at that! Like dental coverage does - so you're already in the hole before its even usable in those cases)

And no, diseases are rarely covered by a catastrophic because they'll drop you and diseases are entirely an ongoing care issue. Serious illness that gets treated and then passes, sure - disease, no sir...
 
Burnem Wizfyre

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Grim1_sl said:
Not enough people were against Hitler openly to matter. Most people, like those on this board, are cowards. They don't have the balls to fight when the chips are down.

And many, like those on this board, actually are happy when their leaders lie, as long as it promotes their self interests.
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Did it hurt when reality crumbled in on itself all around you?
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Araysar_sl said:
Wow, it seems like you are wrong quite often. Wrong yesterday about ACA reconciliation, wrong today about the 1933 election. Maybe instead of berating people here and accusing them of being duped and being coawards, that you check yourself first. Seems like your political and historical knowledge is quite spotty.

By the way, even with your revision of "Most people supported Hitler" it still wouldnt be true because "most" implies 50%+ and as we know, 43.91% is a bit short of that. Additionally, that 43.91% was achieved with widespread violence and intimidation so the actual support was probably significantly less.

P.S. The word you're looking for is "reined in", not "reigned in". Gotta watch out for those spelling errors.
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zzzzz....

Lol. That is the best you can do? I love it when I strike a nerve with the truth, it's so easy to tell because idiots like you go overboard in your attempts to obfuscate your lies and cowardice.

Just admit it. You are a willing tool for Obama. You will do anything he says, even if it means keeping your head up his ass for the rest of your pathetic life.
 
Araysar

Loser Araysar

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Grim1_sl said:
zzzzz....

Lol. That is the best you can do? I love it when I strike a nerve with the truth, it's so easy to tell because idiots like you go overboard in your attempts to obfuscate your lies and cowardice.

Just admit it. You are a willing tool for Obama. You will do anything he says, even if it means keeping your head up his ass for the rest of your pathetic life.
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What truth? That "everyone in germany" = 43% of the population?
 
iannis

iannis

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The military wasn't exactly in lock-step. For the most part they were not, they just didn't want to commit a coup. For one thing, God knows what happens if they did that, so caution was wisdom and for another thing there is a reasonable expectation that no one could possibly bethatinsane. The military establishment wrestled with those problems for some years. A cabal of eminent generals did eventually try. They failed and they were assassinated.

This is all shown in letters. The nazi's were meticulous about keeping records. Even the treasonous shit, they kept it all.

So after that happened, I guess, yeah, they were in lock step. But I thought you were talking about the early 30's, not the late 30's.
 
Burnem Wizfyre

Burnem Wizfyre

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Grim1_sl said:
zzzzz....

Lol. That is the best you can do? I love it when I strike a nerve with the truth, it's so easy to tell because idiots like you go overboard in your attempts to obfuscate your lies and cowardice.

Just admit it. You are a willing tool for Obama. You will do anything he says, even if it means keeping your head up his ass for the rest of your pathetic life.
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Jesus Christ man a broken clock is right twice a day, Araysar was strongly against Obama and his gun laws he tried to pass. You have no dignity left, you have gone full retard, you are becoming a bigger laughing stock than Merlin and that is fucking impressive.
 
Grim1

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Vaclav_sl said:
Well you see most catastrophic plans used to have a "Drop at anytime clause" and with the high deductibles they carry their normal plan was to drop you as soon as you hit the deductible even once while the plans did basically nothing until you hit the deductible.

So you'd be paying $50/mo or whatever towards the plan, then the minute they started to payout a dime they'd drop you the first chance you got - and longterm care (which most catastrophic issues require!) is absolutely never in their domain - and most times for an injury the longterm care is 5-10x the cost of the actual incident itself. (up to 100x in the case of things that require dialysis and the like)

They're a suckers game - I saw a report a number of years about them when they were first starting to popularize that ran through the odds on actually ever breaking even on your policy, normal insurance policies run about 60-70% slightly in the consumers favor - catastrophic was in the high 90% range of being in the INSURANCE COMPANY'S favor - because the deck is entirely stacked in their favor, you have to pay in for years and since they can drop you any time the minute they even sniff that they could lose money on you they drop the policy. (And most of them even had a "build up" time where you had limited coverage the first 1-2 years at that! Like dental coverage does - so you're already in the hole before its even usable in those cases)

And no, diseases are rarely covered by a catastrophic because they'll drop you and diseases are entirely an ongoing care issue. Serious illness that gets treated and then passes, sure - disease, no sir...
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Thats a lot of words to explain your reason to excuse lies, tyranny and bullshit. Just admit that you think you know better than everyone else and that you want to rule their lives no matter what they desire or say.

It is "well meaning" people like you who are the most dangerous. You are not as intelligent as you think. You are not needed for everyone else to survive. If you died right now, it would make no difference in human kind's future. That is the truth you so terribly want to deny.
 
Burnem Wizfyre

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Grim1_sl said:
Wow, that made absolutely no sense. A new low for you. Are you sniffing glue now? I didn't know it was possible, but your IQ seems to be getting lower.
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Your reading comprehension sucks, you are divorced from reality, do you understand that you fucking mental midget?
 
Vaclav

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Grim1_sl said:
Not enough people were against Hitler openly to matter. Most people, like those on this board, are cowards. They don't have the balls to fight when the chips are down.

And many, like those on this board, actually are happy when their leaders lie, as long as it promotes their self interests.
Click to expand...
Are you openly against Obama? Are you driving past my neck of the woods to harass him at the White House on a daily basis? Are you one of the three Tea Party people that regularly hang out near the White House?

And there's a difference between "accepting a lie" and "twisting their words into a different context to make them lie".

Case in point - see what A-Ray did to you with the Hitler comment that you misconstrued? Your point somewhat accurate, but because of imprecise wording was very easy to spin into something completely different than your intended application - Obama's "keep your policy" statement was meant to mean you wouldn't have to use the exchanges should you not like them and the plans that exist as part of them, the normal insurance companies would operate similarly and likely offer similar plans to what they did before. (barring minor tweaks - which again, were commonplace - most years pre-Medicare I saw some part of my coverage adjusted - hell, there were like four years of them yo-yo'ing our copay for a bit there - was $10 then $20, then $15, then $25 just over 2001-2005 with our BC/BC policy from upstate NY same policy, and some other tweaks occasionally but that one I remember as absurd... even misquoted to some new hires a couple times over it because it got so confusing...)

In this day and age of "gotcha!" journalism and 24/7 journalism requiring speechwriters penning something 5 times a week quite often its hard to take one poorly phrased thing as something serious - context is a bitch sometimes, not explaining something fully is a bitch sometimes - you should see that with your Hitler analogy. We forgive you for being ridiculously poor at explaining it and choosing a terrible phrasing, isn't it time you forgive Obama for his and start to acknowledge what he meant over what you took it as out of context?
 
BoldW

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Vaclav is the only one who has posted a decent post in pages, and that last one was no different. It was a good post. Feel free to refute any if his points.
 
Vaclav

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Iannis_sl said:
The military wasn't exactly in lock-step. For the most part they were not, they just didn't want to commit a coup. For one thing, God knows what happens if they did that, so caution was wisdom and for another thing there is a reasonable expectation that no one could possibly bethatinsane. The military establishment wrestled with those problems for some years. A cabal of eminent generals did eventually try. They failed and they were assassinated.

This is all shown in letters. The nazi's were meticulous about keeping records. Even the treasonous shit, they kept it all.

So after that happened, I guess, yeah, they were in lock step. But I thought you were talking about the early 30's, not the late 30's.
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Eh, I meant in general terms - and was speaking mostly from the viewpoint of my family (mothers side is 90% German, 10% Nordic) that was there as civilians through the entire era before they emigrated. Not sure the actual demographics of it I know the PEOPLE felt that way, but yea - there was Operation Valkyrie and shit remembering movies at least.
 
Araysar

Loser Araysar

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Vaclav_sl said:
Case in point - see what A-Ray did to you with the Hitler comment that you misconstrued? Your point somewhat accurate, but because of imprecise wording was very easy to spin into something completely different than your intended application -
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His point was entirely wrong. He tried to pretend that literally all of Germany was behind Hitler when in fact less than half the population was (43%) and even that 43% was achieved only by violence and intimidation.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Vaclav_sl said:
Are you openly against Obama? Are you driving past my neck of the woods to harass him at the White House on a daily basis? Are you one of the three Tea Party people that regularly hang out near the White House?

And there's a difference between "accepting a lie" and "twisting their words into a different context to make them lie".

Case in point - see what A-Ray did to you with the Hitler comment that you misconstrued? Your point somewhat accurate, but because of imprecise wording was very easy to spin into something completely different than your intended application - Obama's "keep your policy" statement was meant to mean you wouldn't have to use the exchanges should you not like them and the plans that exist as part of them, the normal insurance companies would operate similarly and likely offer similar plans to what they did before. (barring minor tweaks - which again, were commonplace - most years pre-Medicare I saw some part of my coverage adjusted - hell, there were like four years of them yo-yo'ing our copay for a bit there - was $10 then $20, then $15, then $25 just over 2001-2005 with our BC/BC policy from upstate NY same policy, and some other tweaks occasionally but that one I remember as absurd... even misquoted to some new hires a couple times over it because it got so confusing...)

In this day and age of "gotcha!" journalism and 24/7 journalism requiring speechwriters penning something 5 times a week quite often its hard to take one poorly phrased thing as something serious - context is a bitch sometimes, not explaining something fully is a bitch sometimes - you should see that with your Hitler analogy. We forgive you for being ridiculously poor at explaining it and choosing a terrible phrasing, isn't it time you forgive Obama for his and start to acknowledge what he meant over what you took it as out of context?
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If Obama has another Kristallnacht then of course I would be on his doorstep, along with millions of other Americans.

But I never claimed Obama was Hitler and doing those kinds of drastic things. You all made that inference. My point was only that when we allow our leaders to lie without consequence that it LEADS to situations like Hitler / Stalin / Mao / Pol Pot / etc. We are a long way from that place.

But it is amazing how quickly we can traverse that distance if people dont' speak up and question our leaders. You have lost your ability to question your messiah. You follow him blindly and you excuse his lies because you think it is in the best interests of the country.

For you the ends justify the means. And for people like you it isn't a very large leap to becoming a button pusher who turns on the gas chamber.
 
Burnem Wizfyre

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Grim1_sl said:
If Obama has another Kristallnacht then of course I would be on his doorstep, along with millions of other Americans.

But I never claimed Obama was Hitler and doing those kinds of drastic things. You all made that inference. My point was only that when we allow our leaders to lie without cosequence that it LEADS to situations like Hitler / Stalin / Mao / Pol Pot / etc. We are a long way from that place.

But it is amazing how quickly we can traverse that distance if people dont' speak up and question our leaders. You have lost your ability to question your messiah. You follow him blindly and you excuse his lies because you think it is in the best interests of the country.

For you the ends justify the means. And for people like you it isn't a very large leap to becoming a button pusher who turns on the gas chamber.
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http://www.fallacyfiles.org/slipslop.html

Without logical fallacies you have nothing.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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Araysar_sl said:
His point was entirely wrong. He tried to pretend that literally all of Germany was behind Hitler when in fact less than half the population was (43%) and even that 43% was achieved only by violence and intimidation.
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True, but his overall message is accurate - they did end up backing up Hitler - no matter the means. You're honing in on a poor wording of his, which was ludicrous - but his point that "People didn't stand up to Hitler" truthfully didn't occur for the mostpart, people generally were subversive in any motions against him, with many doing nothing but complaining in light whispers in company they already knew wasn't loyal. If we had the internet in his day, probably his dissent would've been "off the charts" in comparison to anything we've seen since.

Tons of people didn't like him, but they voiced it in hushed tones - not direct revolution - which is what he was trying to reference, poorly. Just like Obama was referencing "You don't need to use the exchanges" when he said the miscontexted "You can keep your plan".

You can be right with the vision in your head and then state something that's the right breadcrumbs to get the idea across to you, that sends everyone else on a trail leading someplace completely different without ALOT of handholding to get to the right place. [And trust me, it's a huge fault of mine and why I suck at teaching things - I think of things the way I do, if you can't get my explanation I might have 1-2 variants but after that I just get frustrated and pissed off (or leave it to someone else) - fortunately it is something that debating various places has helped me with, I'm not sure it's as much of a weakness anymore...]
 
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