Joker: Folie à Deux (2024)

Phazael

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zombiewizardhawk said:
Also, much like with the Madonna vs Gaga stuff, you can't fairly compare The Beatles "defining rock music" from decades ago when everything was massively more limited from getting started to becoming known to staying relevant with anything modern.
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Beatles also existed in the pre-internet era where any dipshit with a laptop can cut a record of digital pop slop. And lets not forget that all of them had hit albums as solo artists for multiple decades after they hung it up as a group, except Lennon who got shot to death. Individually they were all more prolific than most of the artists we have been debating in this derail. Even fucking Ringo had top five releases for a decade, plus launched the careers of numerous artists through the touring of the All Starr Band. Counting the Wilderberries, Harrison had top ten hits in three decades following the Beatles breakup. I won't bother to read out McCartneys resume, except to say that he is the guy MJ AND Stevie Wonder reached out to to collaborate with.

Go back to listening to Linkin Park and Rage For the Machine on a loop on your walkman at Taco Bell. You have no concept of musical history at all.
 
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BoozeCube

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Burns said:
Spotify monthly listeners (plays) seems to be how Rick Beato tries to see how popular a band currently is, so looks like (almost) everyone you listed is still popular enough (which is nothing compared to pop shit).

Listing Sublime, No Doubt, and Bush along with one hit wonders like Blind Melon, Soul Asylum, and Damn Yankees is a bit funny. Also, out of those, only Bush could be considered grundge (maybe).

Alice in Chains is the only one I listen to regularly, and they get less plays than most of the bands you listed (outside of the 1 hit wonders). Well, Cranberries and Sublime simi-regularly too:
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Something something wrong old man, go back your 1800s yodeling karaoke bar!
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Alice in Chains being that low is criminal. Oh well I am just glad the topic is on literally anything but the dogshit movie.
 
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Phazael

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Drinsic said:
It's not 1993. Whether or not some kids were mad that it wasn't exactly the same as Nevermind upon release is irrelevant to how great the album is.
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If Cobain doesn't blow his brains out, that album is a failure full stop (aside from Heart Shaped Box which has held up pretty well). Before you get all Rustled, thats been true of many artists over the last century. American Pie is literally Don Maclean cashing in on the deaths of Bopper, Vallens, and Holly, ffs.
 
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Bald Brah

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Drinsic said:
It's not 1993. Whether or not some kids were mad that it wasn't exactly the same as Nevermind upon release is irrelevant to how great the album is.
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Nevermind wasn't even great because of Cobain. Butch Vig was the actual genius behind that record. He's made a lot of mediocre bands sound great.
 
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Drinsic

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Phazael said:
If Cobain doesn't blow his brains out, that album is a failure full stop (aside from Heart Shaped Box which has held up pretty well). Before you get all Rustled, thats been true of many artists over the last century. American Pie is literally Don Maclean cashing in on the deaths of Bopper, Vallens, and Holly, ffs.
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what? yeah, Heart-Shaped Box is great, and Rape Me, Dumb, and All Apologies right up there with it. lol "failure full stop" ok
 
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Phazael

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Bald Brah said:
Rock and Roll is completely dead. Boomer rock is the only thing that still gets airplay. There hasn't been a #1 rock hit since Creed and Nickelback were number 1. Zoomers and millennials killed rock and roll. It's all manufactured bullshit artists these days.
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The last three Queens of the Stone Age albums have all charted top ten, including a number one album with Like Clockwork. Every single Radiohead album except King of Limbs has charted to number 1 since 1997. No ACDC Album from Back In Black has charted less than number three. Every single Muse album for the last 20 years has hit number one. Rock is far from dead, and that trope has been recited since everyone thought Disco was going to kill Rock and Roll.
 
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Bald Brah

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Phazael said:
The last three Queens of the Stone Age albums have all charted top ten, including a number one album with Like Clockwork. Every single Radiohead album except King of Limbs has charted to number 1 since 1997. No ACDC Album from Back In Black has charted less than number three. Every single Muse album for the last 20 years has hit number one. Rock is far from dead, and that trope has been recited since everyone thought Disco was going to kill Rock and Roll.
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Muse has only ever had 1 top 40 hit and that peaked at 37. Technically making them a 1 hit wonder. Although I think to qualify for that you need 1 top 10 hit. They really dont even have 1.

I'm talking about mainstream top 40, the thing the world judges artists on. Record sales haven't been important since even before Napster 30 some years ago. No one buys albums any more. Creed and Nickelback were the last traditional rock and roll bands to have #1 top 40 hits.
 
Phazael

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Albums, you meathead. And people absolutely still buy albums. You think Amazon would bother selling them otherwise? I mean, the REPRINT of OK Computer this past year hit fucking number one for fucks sakes. Singles drive sales, but Albums drive longevity. If the "World Judges Artists on Singles" was really a thing, Cash me Outside girl would be the greatest artist of all time. Albums get made because they make money or the industry would never bother.
 
Bald Brah

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Phazael said:
Albums, you meathead. And people absolutely still buy albums. You think Amazon would bother selling them otherwise? I mean, the REPRINT of OK Computer this past year hit fucking number one for fucks sakes. Singles drive sales, but Albums drive longevity. If the "World Judges Artists on Singles" was really a thing, Cash me Outside girl would be the greatest artist of all time. Albums get made because they make money or the industry would never bother.
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You can thank Taylor Swift for them not completely abandoning the format.

"In 2007, half a billion albums were sold in the U.S., either on physical mediums like CD or vinyl or via digital downloads. A year prior, Spotify launched its service in its home country Sweden, rolling out its services in additional markets like the United Kingdom and the United States in 2009 and 2011 respectively. While physical album sales and digital album downloads had already dropped to 331 million in 2011, the decline of album sales accelerated for the remainder of the 2010s. Between 2012 and 2022, album sales fell by 70 percent.

The resurgence of vinyl records, which overtook CD sales in the U.S. for the first time since 1987 in 2022, according to the RIAA, is one likely reason why album sales have managed to stay above the 100-million-unit threshold for four years in a row, despite a dip to 100 million in 2022. The increase by five million between 2022 and 2023 is carried almost single-handedly by Taylor Swift, whose five best-selling records alone were sold 4.8 million times this past year."
 
Phazael

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Bald Brah said:
You can thank Taylor Swift for them not completely abandoning the format.
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She is not going to fuck you dude.

And if you can't grasp why a well made cover to cover album has more impact than cranking out some random singles, then you are too young to be in this conversation. A lot of people thought this same shit back in the WinAmp days and albums kept happening anyhow. Creating a 40 minute listening experience requires much more skill than hopping on the laptop and throwing together a one off electronic synthed single people will forget in a year or two.
 
Burns

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Phazael said:
I am not going to sit here and say that the 90s were the shittiest era for music (I reserve that for the 80s and 2000s), but there are definitely less groups that started in that decade that lasted and remained in the culture sphere than in other decades. The ones who managed it are pretty prolific, admittedly. But we simply will never see another Beatles or Elvis because the genres have pretty much been mapped out and the days of actually making albums, let alone cover to cover good ones, are behind us. Notable exceptions recently for me would be Offspring and Queens of the Stone Age (maybe throw Muse in there).
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A Rick Beato video, with a retired record label exec, recently talked about how abnormal it was to have bands influence more than a 5 to 10 year block of people. They brought up Sinatra as really breaking out of that mold, then the Beatles come along and take it to the next level.

So what we have seen in the last 20-30 years is more along the lines of returning to the norm. Movies are the only thing that really brings old bands back to forefront. Old bands releasing new albums doesn't seem to be the thing that really moves that needle. The video brings up The Rolling Stones and I don't think they would be anywhere close to where they are without Scorsese movies.

They start talking about it right from the get go, then kinda get a little into the weeds (14 min video):
 
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Harshaw

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Phazael said:
Albums, you meathead. And people absolutely still buy albums. You think Amazon would bother selling them otherwise? I mean, the REPRINT of OK Computer this past year hit fucking number one for fucks sakes. Singles drive sales, but Albums drive longevity. If the "World Judges Artists on Singles" was really a thing, Cash me Outside girl would be the greatest artist of all time. Albums get made because they make money or the industry would never bother.
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Don't forget the vinyl revival that has been going on for the last few years.
 
Bald Brah

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Harshaw said:
Don't forget the vinyl revival that has been going on for the last few years.
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But how many are buying new vinyl? They are buying reprints of old stuff. It's a flash in the pan. Sales won't last. It's too easy to say "Alexa: play Motley Crue" than it is to dig out some old record. Not to mention you actually have to clean that stuff. And for what? Worse fidelity?
 
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Harshaw

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Bald Brah said:
But how many are buying new vinyl? They are buying reprints of old stuff. It's a flash in the pan. Sales won't last.
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Lol.. ok dude. Go look on Amazon where you can get your girl Taylor's albums. You do realize most of the new vinyl buyers weren't even around when cassette tapes were a thing.
 
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Burns said:
A Rick Beato video, with a retired record label exec, recently talked about how abnormal it was to have bands influence more than a 5 to 10 year block of people. They brought up Sinatra as really breaking out of that mold, then the Beatles come along and take it to the next level.

So what we have seen in the last 20-30 years is more along the lines of returning to the norm. Movies are the only thing that really brings old bands back to forefront. Old bands releasing new albums doesn't seem to be the thing that really moves that needle. The video brings up The Rolling Stones and I don't think they would be anywhere close to where they are without Scorsese movies.

They start talking about it right from the get go, then kinda get a little into the weeds (14 min video):
Click to expand...

Foo Fighters are still going strong. 💪
 
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Caliane

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Burns said:
A Rick Beato video, with a retired record label exec, recently talked about how abnormal it was to have bands influence more than a 5 to 10 year block of people. They brought up Sinatra as really breaking out of that mold, then the Beatles come along and take it to the next level.

So what we have seen in the last 20-30 years is more along the lines of returning to the norm. Movies are the only thing that really brings old bands back to forefront. Old bands releasing new albums doesn't seem to be the thing that really moves that needle. The video brings up The Rolling Stones and I don't think they would be anywhere close to where they are without Scorsese movies.

They start talking about it right from the get go, then kinda get a little into the weeds (14 min video):
Click to expand...

Oh, that reminds me. one we all missed.

Nine inch nails. albums, video games, and soundtracks. Trent has crazy influence. even if its not as directly in your face as beatles, etc.

john williams and danny elfman probably should be considered as well..
 
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Phazael

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Burns said:
A Rick Beato video, with a retired record label exec, recently talked about how abnormal it was to have bands influence more than a 5 to 10 year block of people. They brought up Sinatra as really breaking out of that mold, then the Beatles come along and take it to the next level.

So what we have seen in the last 20-30 years is more along the lines of returning to the norm. Movies are the only thing that really brings old bands back to forefront. Old bands releasing new albums doesn't seem to be the thing that really moves that needle. The video brings up The Rolling Stones and I don't think they would be anywhere close to where they are without Scorsese movies.

They start talking about it right from the get go, then kinda get a little into the weeds (14 min video):
Click to expand...


There is a definite difference between old material being pushed back into the current culture (like with the Stones, what Waynes World did for Queen, ect) and bands who keep cranking out top ten albums for over a decade. The latter are much rarer and probably the kind of groups you put in those A and S tier conversations. Influence on other musicians is probably something else to consider, I suppose, but that is really subjective.
 
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Phazael

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Caliane said:
Oh, that reminds me. one we all missed.

Nine inch nails. albums, video games, and soundtracks. Trent has crazy influence. even if its not as directly in your face as beatles, etc.

john williams and danny elfman probably should be considered as well..
Click to expand...

Agree with all of those, though NIN is mostly confined to one decade due to Reznor's inner demons stymying him. Few people realize the scope of Elfman's career if they are not familiar with the Mystic Knights of Oingo Boingo and the impact Forbidden Zone had on California pop culture. Bear McReary probably deserves an honorable mention there for similar reasons.
 
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