Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Deathwing_sl said:

Sounds like an insecurity.

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It is. A massive one. And I see what you did there.

Haast_sl said:

Perhaps this was not your point, but I'd like to myth-bust a bit on the "divorce always fucks over the man" mantra. In popular culture, divorce is a no-rules woman victory-fest. The second you say "I do", you are beholden to her for life or she gets to ruin you financially. I can't speak for every state, but in mine, the divorce laws are fairly reasonable. Which, speaking of finding out the hard way, my ex was exceedingly sad to learn. Deal with it, bitch.

Under community property law, the assets you had before marriage still belong to you in a divorce. Only money and assets accumulated during the marriage are split (hence, community property). Spousal support is not even on the table until you have been married 10 years, and even then it only lasts a certain # of years and is limited by % income & has a hard cap.

So in the case of my pathetically short marriage, we had accumulated little together. I had saved diligently prior to marriage, and I kept that savings. I purchased a house independently before we were even engaged, and the house was granted completely to me. And she had a rather pricey attorney hired, so I assume he would have gone after things aggressively if he had any chance.

Kids complicate things greatly, but we'll leave that for another discussion.

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Yes, divorce with no kids isn't the hugest deal, but one of the primary reasons to get married in the first place is to have kids. The reason why in "popular culture, divorce is a no-rules woman victory-fest" is explicitly because most divorces involve kids..

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:

Yes, divorce with no kids isn't the hugest deal, but one of the primary reasons to get married in the first place is to have kids. The reason why in "popular culture, divorce is a no-rules woman victory-fest" is explicitly because most divorces involve kids..

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Meh, the pop culture myth isn't specific to married with kids, though you are right that the worst horror stories involve them. It is portrayed as "it will always be 50/50" or worse in movies/TV/etc, when that is not the case at all.

My ex is a great case study in pop culture perception. She wanted the divorce and hadn't even bothered to Google the law. I had. The first dumb words out of her mouth on the subject were, "I'm not sure if I want my WHOLE 50%...", at which point I started laughing. She really thought life was about to be her very own Eat Pray Love adventure. And I mean that seriously, she was planning to go to Italy & India with my retirement funds. Oh, the disappointment was fucking sweet.

Can you expand and explain a bit more on that topic Haast? How much was she entitled to from you?

Haast_sl said:

Meh, the pop culture myth isn't specific to married with kids, though you are right that the worst horror stories involve them. It is portrayed as "it will always be 50/50" or worse in movies/TV/etc, when that is not the case at all.

My ex is a great case study in pop culture perception. She wanted the divorce and hadn't even bothered to Google the law. I had. The first dumb words out of her mouth on the subject were, "I'm not sure if I want my WHOLE 50%...", at which point I started laughing. She really thought life was about to be her very own Eat Pray Love adventure. And I mean that seriously, she was planning to go to Italy & India with my retirement funds. Oh, the disappointment was fucking sweet.

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On the topic of the power of divorce. What is the law because I know men who got screwed in divorce who had no kids/had kids that were over 18. In your case, did she make close to the same income as you? What were the circumstances?

EDIT: What tenks said

Also, you admitted it was pathetically short. How long were you married?

Tenks_sl said:

Can you expand and explain a bit more on that topic Haast? How much was she entitled to from you?

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According to the law, half of what we accumulated as a married couple. I'm not a lawyer, but this site gives a decent run-down onhow assets are split in TX.

We were married less than a year and it was an expensive year (hello wedding and honeymoon costs), so I could have argued the mutual accumulation was $0. I didn't, since I didn't want a bitter battle. I'm not sure how to characterize it without getting into numbers that are personal. She got a small amount to get started, and I kept all my major assets, such as savings, retirement, investments, house, car, etc (all of which were pre-marriage).

IIRC she earns about half of what I do and goes out constantly now, so my guess is she'll be deep into credit cards fast.

Big Phoenix_sl said:

You were just smart enough to not comingle.

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You can definitely co-mingle the post-marriage earnings (at least in TX) since those will be split up anyway. But yeah, if you are going in at different financial levels, it's a good idea to keep the pre-marriage stuff separate.

Haast_sl said:

Meh, the pop culture myth isn't specific to married with kids, though you are right that the worst horror stories involve them. It is portrayed as "it will always be 50/50" or worse in movies/TV/etc, when that is not the case at all.

My ex is a great case study in pop culture perception. She wanted the divorce and hadn't even bothered to Google the law. I had. The first dumb words out of her mouth on the subject were, "I'm not sure if I want my WHOLE 50%...", at which point I started laughing. She really thought life was about to be her very own Eat Pray Love adventure. And I mean that seriously, she was planning to go to Italy & India with my retirement funds. Oh, the disappointment was fucking sweet.

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I'll add that the problems kids inject into a divorce isn't just the legal disadvantage men have when it comes to custody and child-support, but more so the fact that the more "moral" party in the process is at a natural disadvantage. I know countless guys who have been through a divorce and felt morally obliged to make compromises that they possibly could have defeated in court. The story always seems to be the same-- the divorce starts out amicable with reasonable demands, suddenly the wife makes a 180 and starts making ridiculous requests, a clash ensues, the kids are used as a pawn/asset in the battle by the wife, and the dude eventually "taps out" because the money/house isn't worth the damage to the kids, or even worse having the ex poison their minds with all sorts of smack talk about dad. I knew a guy who gave up his house simply because the wife threatened to go rent an apartment in a shitty area (despite her being able to afford far better) so the kids would end up having to go to a shitty school. His choice then became whether to let her keep the house, or pay for private school. It was his house, purchased before they got married, yet what was he supposed to do/say when he saw his nine year old on the weekend and she said "mom says I'm going to have to go to Cesar Chavez Elementary because you won't let her live in the house anymore"..

Deathwing_sl said:

Maybe guys shouldn't marry such cunts in the first place. I'd like to think even hints of such behavior would surface before marriage.

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I agree with you.

Deathwing_sl said:

Maybe guys shouldn't marry such cunts in the first place. I'd like to think even hints of such behavior would surface before marriage.

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After plenty of self-reflection afterwards, I know I made mistakes. In the relationship yes, but moreso in choosing a partner (poorly).

We had many close mutual friends; we were introduced by them. We dated for a number of years prior to getting engaged. She was very big on "we should get married, have a family, be together forever, etc". The part she left out is that she viewed marriage as a end rather than a beginning. As in, getting married would suddenly eliminate all disagreements and the two of you live in complete harmony. Which is completely fucking insane, since we saw all of our friends struggle with various things in their marriages. I also think she assumed she would call all the shots after we got married. I'm not sure why she thought this, because that definitely was not our relationship prior to marriage.

I guess she and reality aren't strongly connected. Live and learn.

Deathwing_sl said:

Maybe guys shouldn't marry such cunts in the first place. I'd like to think even hints of such behavior would surface before marriage.

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Agreed of course, but in all honesty I knew some of these wives and they didn't particularly strike me as "cunts".. There are some women who when they are "in love" behave totally different than when they are "out of love". Ever had that girlfriend that was relatively normal, but went bat shit homicidal vindictive crazy when you broke up? I have.. What's that old line-- "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"?

EDIT: Yup, my friends have fucked up, my dad fucked up twice, and I've seen male co-workers fuck- up. I'd like to think I'm a better judge of character than they are, but the reality is that marriage is pretty much an impossibility for me, because my list of observations for what I'd consider "safe criterion for marriage" has become so long it's a practical impossibility. At this point, I see marriage as a societal blackmail tool that I'm forced to swallow if I want to have kids. Without kinds I see zero point in getting married, as I just see it as a piece of paper that carries potential legal repercussions with almost no benefits.

Khane_sl said:

I wasn't saying I'd automatically get fucked over, I was saying there's a chance, any chance at all is something I'm not OK with. Aside from that the fact that it requires legal intervention at all to dissolve is just ridiculous to me.

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Interacting with humans period puts you in a position where there is a chance you could get fucked over. That's a big reason it is so important to pick the right humans.

chaos_sl said:

Interacting with humans period puts you in a position where there is a chance you could get fucked over. That's a big reason it is so important to pick the right humans.

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That's a little over the top.

I dunno about all the rationalizations. Maybe that goes on in my mind below the level of my articulated thought. All I know is that I've only ever known 2 women that were worth marrying. One of them said no and I didn't ask the other one.

I don't know if it's reasonable to expect that you get that lucky three times in life. So bring on the whores and the decrepitude!

Khane_sl said:

That's a little over the top.

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Over the top? It is absolutely true. You think that avoiding relationships and keeping a bangmaid makes you immune to getting fucked over? I say PSSHAH

chaos_sl said:

Over the top? It is absolutely true. You think that avoiding relationships and keeping a bangmaid makes you immune to getting fucked over? I say PSSHAH

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Well, I suppose I should get used to people thinking I'm selfish because I want something they deem as inappropriate or uncouth. And I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of that.

By the way, technically speaking monogamy is more akin to keeping a "bangmaid" than an open relationship is. You kinda got your wires crossed there.