Throne and Liberty (Formerly Project TL)

Man the way gear is already gated behind SO much shit like trait stones, I REALLY wish they'd up the dungeon limit or add some fuckass time grinder to add more Dimensional coins per day. Three dungeons just isn't enough, especially when you're doing them in under 15 minutes. That's not even a full hour a day of the highest end group content. Kinda sucks. The open world dungeons are cool too, but I'm not sure how well the Abyssal Contract Coins restack as most people had like nearly 2000 early on and I'm down to about 4000 after 3-4 hours in there with a group.

They still need to Westernize this a bit and remove some time gate shit. The p2w aspect is only relevant for PVP or as an option for people who don't want to grind out the minutia of shit like killing 1,000 iron chestaceans to MAYBE get a GREEN ring I can then use the trait extraction on to buff my blue ring slightly.

Maybe the reigns are tightened for early release because in the end PVP guilds controlling shit can matter a lot for things like tax rates and buffs. Hopefully they ease up soon.

Tried it with a controller, I think it's better that way.

I don't understand the targeting though. This is the first mmo I've played that has 40 mobs all within a few meters of each other, so its hard to single out the 1 or 2 mobs you need.

3 different pug attempts on the 2nd dungeon now (with king chimaerus), 2 of them have been disasters where people either just can't comprehend the most basic of mechanics or have trash gear (and both for most of the players in those 2 attempts) and one that went super smooth cause everyone had decent gear and an iq over 75. Doesn't leave me feeling great about dungeons further down the road...

The more these new games try to look realistic, the more they all look the same. Looks like every other recent action-based MMORPG. I mean you could take a 10 second clip from this game, BDO, and New World and I wouldn't be able to tell you which one is from which game immediately. I'll take old graphic stylized MMORPGs any day over this modern stuff.

Xevy said:

Man the way gear is already gated behind SO much shit like trait stones, I REALLY wish they'd up the dungeon limit or add some fuckass time grinder to add more Dimensional coins per day. Three dungeons just isn't enough, especially when you're doing them in under 15 minutes. That's not even a full hour a day of the highest end group content. Kinda sucks. The open world dungeons are cool too, but I'm not sure how well the Abyssal Contract Coins restack as most people had like nearly 2000 early on and I'm down to about 4000 after 3-4 hours in there with a group.

They still need to Westernize this a bit and remove some time gate shit. The p2w aspect is only relevant for PVP or as an option for people who don't want to grind out the minutia of shit like killing 1,000 iron chestaceans to MAYBE get a GREEN ring I can then use the trait extraction on to buff my blue ring slightly.

Maybe the reigns are tightened for early release because in the end PVP guilds controlling shit can matter a lot for things like tax rates and buffs. Hopefully they ease up soon.

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It'll really depend on which audience they cater to.

BDO's "Western" audience have been much larger financial contributors to the game than their "native", Korean players/audience. Yet, they've continued to cater to and listen to their KR audience, despite NA/EU being the vast majority of their spenders.

T&L was a pretty big flop in Korea. The audience there just didn't really support it. So far, it seems to be getting a decent reception from the West. Despite the fact that the PvP and "guild" focus will turn a lot of players off, I think the game will find a niche amongst the GW2-style MMO enjoyers - it reminds me a lot of that game, honestly. Now, whether this will translate into them slowly "catering" to a Western audience or not remains to be seen. BDO certainly hasn't, but that's also self published by the Korean devs. With NCSoft behind the wheel and having success in the West with other MMOs, I'd like to think they may start tailoring the game more to the West.

I actually enjoy that the content is "gated" though. It keeps the whales from being able to go too insane and it also keeps all the loser low-lifes who can play games 24/7 from getting too far "ahead". And even if you are a one of those losers that gets 14 hours/day of gametime, it allows you to enjoy other games on top of T&L.

zombiewizardhawk said:

3 different pug attempts on the 2nd dungeon now (with king chimaerus), 2 of them have been disasters where people either just can't comprehend the most basic of mechanics or have trash gear (and both for most of the players in those 2 attempts) and one that went super smooth cause everyone had decent gear and an iq over 75. Doesn't leave me feeling great about dungeons further down the road...

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The focus on guilds and playing with a group of "like-minded" players is really going to turn people off in the West. It isn't really a game for mouthbreathers as even the "newbie" dungeons have mechanics 10x more in-depth than shit you had in classic WoW, for example. It's definitely a game that'll chew up and spit out your average MMOL (L = Lobby) enjoyer. They're going to have to massively nerf a LOT of the mechanics in the dungeons for the West, because we have absolute, complete retards over here. I'd love for them to keep it as-is, but I know that doing so is going to drastically impact the amount of "mass-appeal" the game has. And while I prefer niche MMOs over "AAA" MMOs, I realize that bills still need to be paid.

Tide27 said:

Tried it with a controller, I think it's better that way.

I don't understand the targeting though. This is the first mmo I've played that has 40 mobs all within a few meters of each other, so its hard to single out the 1 or 2 mobs you need.

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btw try this,
set your lock on to something else, R2 R3. then set next target to triangle. that way you can just cycle through mobs and press circle to cancel unintended target

for healing, set the left trigger to nothing. that way you can select team mates with just up and down dpad. then set use quick item to L2 down dpad

for aoe farming and single boss fight, zoom out the camera all the way, it helps alot

Xevy said:

Man the way gear is already gated behind SO much shit like trait stones, I REALLY wish they'd up the dungeon limit or add some fuckass time grinder to add more Dimensional coins per day. Three dungeons just isn't enough, especially when you're doing them in under 15 minutes. That's not even a full hour a day of the highest end group content. Kinda sucks. The open world dungeons are cool too, but I'm not sure how well the Abyssal Contract Coins restack as most people had like nearly 2000 early on and I'm down to about 4000 after 3-4 hours in there with a group.

They still need to Westernize this a bit and remove some time gate shit. The p2w aspect is only relevant for PVP or as an option for people who don't want to grind out the minutia of shit like killing 1,000 iron chestaceans to MAYBE get a GREEN ring I can then use the trait extraction on to buff my blue ring slightly.

Maybe the reigns are tightened for early release because in the end PVP guilds controlling shit can matter a lot for things like tax rates and buffs. Hopefully they ease up soon.

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If you find yourself not having enough to do, make an alt. Lucent is shared across all your characters so if you good a get dungeon drop on your alt, you can litho it/trait extract it, sell it on the AH, then use that Lucent to buy upgrades for your main.

After 3 days, I feel I gave this a fair shake.

The graphics are great and the music is good, but that's about where the positives end.

The combat is so spammy and disjointed that you basically just press every button and wait until some start coming off of cool down

If people enjoy this, that's great. Not every mmo has to be for every person.

It's definitely not for everyone, but it's easily the most fun I've had in an MMO since GW2. But I'm also a large-scale PvP enjoyer and miss the PRX days.

If you're a PvE only enjoyer, I'd give the game a couple months to cook. Once they add T2 dungeons and the challenge modes, this game has some of the most difficult/complex PvE out there in an MMO, especially if you prefer group level stuff, rather than your typical 25+ man raids.

If you just want a casual MMO where you can enjoy being a Dad, I'd roll on a private EQ server.

Tide27 said:

The combat is so spammy and disjointed that you basically just press every button and wait until some start coming off of cool down

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I'm a little confused by this take. Isn't this basically every single MMO in existence?

Combat depends on weapons. Some weapons have loooong cooldowns and do giga damage like greatsword and staff. Other weapons are nonstop pew pew like xbow wands and daggers.

Some of them are A into B into C into A into D into A into B into C type play

Some are Press A into B into C and hit everything you possibly can during this C window because this is your money maker!!!!! then repeat

At higher levels you actually want to time shit for group buffs. For instance I xbow/longbow (don't)

When a monster Q's I have to hit it with a specific 20 second or so cooldown that gives my groupmates 16% more crit damage for like 6 seconds. I also have a mark that makes it so every crit during the mark 5 second cooldown reduces EVERYONES cooldown by 1% up to 50% total. So you can just mash it as it's up, but later on you want to hit it right after everyone's used their giga burst or during certain abilities where people hit 1000 times in one second.

It's definitely not a new meta in combat design or anything, but it's decent+. It can be overwhelming if you're trying to DDR you dps rotation while dodging rage attacks while standing still for buffs while also dodging targeted AE's, but I guess that's also the point of enjoyment for combat in this game.

PVP is dogshit. Greatswords will lock you down for 10 seconds straight (no DR on stuns, no DR on stuns from multiple sources) and you die. The only way to counter this is to build a set with pvp stats which is not fucking happening 3 weeks in or grind all your dungeons to get a CC trinket made. Even then when it's on cooldown you're just dead.

Chanur said:

So what's the verdict? Is this legit? Being NCSoft makes me a big skeptical.

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Depends on what you want out of an MMO. It's the best MMO released since GW2 IMO.

I got to 50 yesterday and did a little bit of stuff at 50 today. Haven't done any of the level 50 dungeons yet, somewhere around 1700 power I think, using dagger/wand (mostly wand for sustain although I did look up some dagger/wand stuff on youtube and apparently you can make a pretty nice pvp build with it using aoe sleep bomb/dot tactics). It's been enjoyable enough for me, and I could see myself sticking with it as a casual game but not going hardcore into it like I usually do with games, especially MMOs. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though.

How bad the cash shop stuff gets in the future could change things, obviously, although probably not too drastically since I'm not planning on going hard or being super competitive anyways.

Chanur said:

Mostly solo play and some group stuff. Not looking to raid again.

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It's not a game where you're going to find a lot of meaningful solo play, TBH. The dungeons are complete newb stompers and most mouthbreathers that play MMOs are used to lobby simulators that shit loot.

If you have a pre-made or a solid guild, it's a total blast though. Even if you just have a couple buddies though, you can carry most dungeons with just a tank, healer, and DPS, even if you have total imbeciles. There are a few that are tougher with just 3, but most can be done.

Don't get me wrong, you can progress as a solo player, it'll just be much slower on gear upgrades. It's not impossible or anything, it's just not really your typical "solo" MMO.

Anyone know how the sleep bomb interaction works with karmic haze? The skill says it can transfer to 3 other targets so how are large clumps of players getting slept at the same time, is it just synchronization of multiple players casting sleep/haze?

Chersk said:

Anyone know how the sleep bomb interaction works with karmic haze? The skill says it can transfer to 3 other targets so how are large clumps of players getting slept at the same time, is it just synchronization of multiple players casting sleep/haze?

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The tooltip is wrong. It works on all players in the radius of Karmic Haze. A lot of skill descriptions are fucked from what I'm assuming are translation issues. It's probably supposed to say "within 3m" and not 3 targets. It's why clumping is bad in PvP fights. Most shit has a pretty small radius, but people dickride each other when a simple 5-10m spread is all that's needed.

I am having fun, the dungeons and world are great.

The pvp so far seems basically who ever lands CC first and you spend entire death CC'd. Gear is huge though it seems, seen people with 16k hp and just tank 10+ guys on them, yet go out there with 8k or so and you will die in an eye blink. I assume the super tanky are in some all evasion/endurance gear with full traits and str for HP.

Cinge said:

I am having fun, the dungeons and world are great.

The pvp so far seems basically who ever lands CC first and you spend entire death CC'd. Gear is huge though it seems, seen people with 16k hp and just tank 10+ guys on them, yet go out there with 8k or so and you will die in an eye blink. I assume the super tanky are in some all evasion/endurance gear with full traits and str for HP.

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PvP gear makes a massive difference. Unless you're not a fan of PvP content, most people should build a PvP set as their first set. None of the PvE content really requires PvE gear yet.