War with Syria

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Lleauaric

Lleauaric

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Of course you won't. Just keep ignoring everything that shows your illusion for the bullshit it is.
 
khalid

khalid

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Araysar_sl said:
Tell me how one of the most highly trained air forces in the world could mistake a 10,000 ton ship for a 2750 ton ship and not see a flag?
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How did the USS Vincennes mistake a Airbus 300 for an attacking F-14 fighter?

According to the United States Government, the crew incorrectly identified the Iranian Airbus A300 as an attacking F-14 Tomcat fighter (a plane made in the United States and operated at that time by only two forces worldwide, the United States Navy and the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force).
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hodj

hodj

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Lleauaric_sl said:
Of course you won't. Just keep ignoring everything that shows your illusion for the bullshit it is.
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Supports a war over non existant WMD
Says others believe in illusions

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Tell us, were you this gung ho for war in Iraq over non existant WMD as well?

Why are you such a war monger? Do you enjoy children and women bleeding to death in the street?
 
Araysar

Loser Araysar

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The USS Vincennes was a cruiser firing at a target that was several miles outside of visual range, relying entirely on radar, with zero visual confirmation.

The 4 IAF planes were firing bullets at the USS Liberty while strafing it multiple times from literally a hundred yards away.

On 2 October 2007, The Chicago Tribune published a special report[6] into the attack, containing numerous previously unreported quotes from former military personnel with first-hand knowledge of the incident. Many of these quotes directly contradict the U.S. National Security Agency's position that it never intercepted the communications of the attacking Israeli pilots, saying that not only did transcripts of those communications exist, but also that it showed the Israelis knew they were attacking an American naval vessel.
 
iannis

iannis

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Friendly fire happens because: Testosterone + Adrenaline + Stress + Paranoia + Eagerness = stupid mistakes. Really, really, really stupid mistakes. Mistakes so stupid that if they happened in a civilian population they would be deemed criminal offenses.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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Cui Bono

The Israeli's had a large motive to attack the USS liberty if you study the greater context of the war that the attack was involved in. It also shows how big of an enemy Syria has been to Israel since it's inception.

Lately I've been reading The Passionate Attachment, by the late former under secretary of State George W. Ball and his son Douglas Ball, and it argues thatthe Israelis were fearful that the U.S. would report on continued Israeli hostilities at a time when the U.N. had voted for a ceasefire. On June 8, 1967, the fourth day of the war, they say, Israel still wanted to conquer the Golan Heights.
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"[T]he United Nations had adopted a cease-fire resolution and they [the Israelis] feared there might not be enough time to accomplish this objective without, as it were, going into overtime.

"The Liberty's presence and function were known to Israel's leaders. They presumably thought it vital that the Liberty be prevented from informing Washington of their intentions to violate any cease-fire before they had completed their occupation of the Golan. Their solution was brutal and direct. Israeli aircraft determined the exact location of the ship and undertook a combined air-naval attack.

y permitting a cover-up of Israel's attack on the Liberty, President Johnson told the Israelis in effect that nothing they did would induce American politicians to refuse their bidding. From that time forth, the Israelis began to act as if they had an inalienable right to American aid and backing.
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TheGolan heightswhich also used to belong to Syria are a mountain range that the Syrians could use standard artillery to easily bombard most of Israel, capturing the Golan heights was a major security objective for Israel.

Golan Heights profile

Strategic importance

Minefield in Golan Heights
While still under Syrian control,the Golan Heights were used to bombard Israeli territory below
Southern Syria and the capital Damascus, about 60 km (40 miles) north, are clearly visible from the top of the Heights while Syrian artillery regularly shelled the whole of northern Israel from 1948 to 1967 when Syria controlled the Heights.

The heights give Israel an excellent vantage point for monitoring Syrian movements. The topography provides a natural buffer against any military thrust from Syria.

The area is also a key source of water for an arid region. Rainwater from the Golan's catchment feeds into the Jordan River. The area provides a third of Israel's water supply.

The land is fertile, with the volcanic soil being used to cultivate vineyards and orchards and to raise cattle. The Golan is also home to Israel's only ski resort
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Araysar

Loser Araysar

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Iannis_sl said:
Friendly fire happens because: Testosterone + Adrenaline + Stress + Paranoia + Eagerness = stupid mistakes. Really, really, really stupid mistakes. Mistakes so stupid that if they happened in a civilian population they would be deemed criminal offenses.
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Israeli diplomatic cables[edit source | editbeta]

Two diplomatic cables written by Avraham Harman, Israel's ambassador in Washington, to Abba Eban Israel's minister of foreign affairs, have been declassified by Israel and obtained from the Israel State Archive. The first cable, sent five days after the attack, informs Eban that a U.S. informant told him (Harman) that there was "clear proof that from a certain stage the pilot discovered the identity of the ship and continued the attack anyway."[98] The second cable, sent three days later, added that the White House is "very angry" because "the Americans probably have findings showing that our pilots indeed knew that the ship was American."[6]
The Israeli diplomatic cables appear to confirm the existence of the NSA tapes in which an Israeli pilot identifies the USS Liberty as an American vessel, radios his base informing the base of this fact, and is ordered to continue the attack anyway.[6]

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iannis

iannis

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Well look at it this way -- if it was a conspiracy it wasstilla mistake. A stupid one that cost more than it gained them, inspired no doubt by stress, paranoia, and eagerness.

Does it matter if you blame the fighter jock or the fighter jock's commander? Does that make it worse or better? Should we add "willful" to stupid mistake?

Because I'm willing to believe that these sorts of events occur. I'm willing to believe that Israel forces perpetrated an attack on American ones. I put that in the "acts of senseless violence" column. Are we keeping score? Because I really doubt that America's got a clean ass, here.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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It's not a "mistake" for Israel, they have the Golan heights now, colonized it and are never giving it back, how is that a "mistake" for Israel? The US did nothing and they got everything they wanted.
 
hodj

hodj

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Hippies don't like Norman Borlaug because he fed poor people with the power of GMOs.
 
Araysar

Loser Araysar

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Iannis_sl said:
Well look at it this way -- if it was a conspiracy it wasstilla mistake. A stupid one that cost more than it gained them, inspired no doubt by stress, paranoia, and eagerness.

Does it matter if you blame the fighter jock or the fighter jock's commander? Does that make it worse or better? Should we add "willful" to stupid mistake?

Because I'm willing to believe that these sorts of events occur. I'm willing to believe that Israel forces perpetrated an attack on American ones. I put that in the "acts of senseless violence" column. Are we keeping score? Because I really doubt that America's got a clean ass, here.
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As fanaskin pointed out, one of the main theories for that attack was to prevent US knowing that Israel was going to preemptively attack Golan Heights, something that US opposed. The USS Liberty was intercepting the Israeli communications leading up to the Syria strike. Israel did start fighting Syria a day after the USS Liberty attack. 46 years later, Israel still controls one of the most important strategic points in the world. As a matter of fact, the gain far outweighed the cost because US helped them cover it up. After all, we can't be upsetting our Zionist masters and overlords, can we?




Ship's identification known during attack: A James Bamford book,[101] published in 2001, said that secret NSA intercepts recorded by an American EC-121 reconnaissance aircraft indicate that Israeli pilots had full knowledge they were attacking a U.S. vessel.[102] This 2001 proposition has played a significant role in the ongoing controversies about the incident, and continues to be widely cited. The tapes were later released by the National Security Agency in 2003 as a result of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit brought by Judge and author A. Jay Cristol. However, instead of the EC-121 attack tapes requested by the FOIA request, the tapes released contained post-attack communications of Israeli helicopter pilots, their ground controller, and someone on one of the torpedo boats. The helicopters were sent to the attack site to provide assistance after the air attack. The helicopter pilots noticed an American flag flying from the ship almost immediately upon their arrival at the attack site[103] and informed their controller. See other sources for a link to the NSA website with complete transcripts. The NSA Website denies that there are any U.S. recordings of the attack itself; although, this is disputed by several intelligence specialists who say they read the original transcripts.[citation needed]


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Siddar

Siddar

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fanaskin_sl said:
it's not a mistake for Israel, they have the Golan heights now, colonized it and are never giving it back, how is that a "mistake" for Israel? The US did nothing and they got everything they wanted.
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What was the US going to do? Ill give you the answer they weren't going to do anything so the attack had no impact but to set off 50 years of conspiracy theories. Its very possible that some leftwing commie sympathazing Isreali military personal decided to attack a US navy ship without going up chain of command. US and Isreal were not as close as they are today in 1967. But what is the point of bringing it up when relationship between countries is completely different then it was at the time of the incident?
 
hodj

hodj

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I'm going to be sad when Its Always Sunny finally goes off the air.

So many good .gifs, images, joke phrases and clips from that shit.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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Siddar_sl said:
What was the US going to do?
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Enforce a already signed UN cease fire before Israel could conquer the Golan heights because America was concerned as it usually was during the cold war about potential conflicts escalating into a nuclear war with the Russians?
 
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