War with Syria

TrollfaceDeux · Sep 9, 2013

khalid_sl said:
Fixed.

UNHOLY TRINITY.

iannis · Sep 9, 2013

Axis of Evil would also be acceptable. The uhh, three spoked, axis of evil.

Ara is the chanter, Fana is the tank, Lumie is the cleric.

Araysar · Sep 9, 2013

Siddar_sl said:
What was the US going to do? Ill give you the answer they weren't going to do anythingso the attack had no impact but to set off 50 years of conspiracy theories. Its very possible that some leftwing commie sympathazing Isreali military personal decided to attack a US navy ship without going up chain of command. US and Isreal were not as close as they are today in 1967. But what is the point of bringing it up when relationship between countries is completely different then it was at the time of the incident?

Convinced that that attack was real, President of the United States Lyndon B. Johnson launched allegedly nuclear-armed planes targeted against Cairo from a U.S. aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean. The planes were recalled only just in time, when it was clear the Liberty had not sunk and that Israel had carried out the attack. An information source for the aircraft being nuclear-armed, James Ennes, later stated he was probably wrong in his original book. According to Ennes, the planes were not nuclear-armed, but most likely armed with Bullpup missiles.[85] The video also provides hearsay evidence of a covert alliance of U.S. and Israel intelligence agencies.[86]

Bullpup missiles are air to ground missiles. What would be the possible consequences of US engaging Egyptian ground targets during Six Day War?

Siddar · Sep 9, 2013

fanaskin_sl said:
Enforce a UN cease fire before Israel could conquer the Golan heights because America was concerned as it usually was during the cold war about potential conflicts escalating into a nuclear war with the Russians?

No it wasn't. Arabs were aligned with Soviets and Israel was more of a French ally not a US ally at that time. US wasn't going to send troops to protect Syria from the Jews when it had real national interests in the fight. US has avoided direct involvement in all Israeli conflicts until after they had ended. 1967 wasn't going to be different.

Siddar · Sep 9, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
Convinced that that attack was real, President of the United States Lyndon B. Johnson launched allegedly nuclear-armed planes targeted against Cairo from a U.S. aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean. The planes were recalled only just in time, when it was clear the Liberty had not sunk and that Israel had carried out the attack. An information source for the aircraft being nuclear-armed, James Ennes, later stated he was probably wrong in his original book. According to Ennes, the planes were not nuclear-armed, but most likely armed with Bullpup missiles.[85] The video also provides hearsay evidence of a covert alliance of U.S. and Israel intelligence agencies.[86]

Complete Nonsense please go find any real credible info that suggests US was going to attack Egypt in 1967. A nutcase saying US was about to nuke Egypt in 1967 doesn't count. If LBJ was going to nuke Eygpt why didn't he nuke the hell out of Vietnam?

Araysar · Sep 9, 2013

Siddar_sl said:
Complete Nonsense please go find any real credible info that suggests US was going to attack Egypt in 1967.A nutcasesaying US was about to nuke Egypt in 1967 doesn't count. If LBJ was going to nuke Eygpt why didn't he nuke the hell out of Vietnam?

Bullpup missiles are air to ground missiles. What would be the possible consequences of US engaging Egyptian ground targets during Six Day War?

First of all, he corrected himself and said that they were Bullpup missiles, not nuclear missiles.

Second of all, who is this "nutcase"?

Who is Jim Ennes and why is he telling these awful lies about Israel?

Jim Ennes (James Marquis Ennes, Jr.), a survivor of the 1967 attack by Israel on the American intelligence ship USS Liberty and one of the creators of The USS Liberty Memorial Web Site, is an American citizen and a retired career US Naval Officer. He was born in New Jersey in 1933 and was raised in New York, Texas, Illinois, Washington State and California.
He attended high school in Alameda, California, and Irving, Texas, where he left in his senior year year during the Korean War to enlist in the US Navy. He subsequently served in naval communications in Yokosuka, Japan, and later as Navy Mail Clerk aboard the USS General G.M.Randall (TAP-115), a troop transport ship operating under the Military Sea Transportation Service.

Following his enlisted tour, he worked as an investigator for Retail Credit Company (now known as Equifax Corporation) while attending San Francisco State College at night on the GI Bill. Upon receiving his degree in business administration he applied for Naval Officer Candidate School and was commissioned in 1962. He has lived in the Pacific Northwest since he retired from the Navy in 1978.

During his commissioned service, Ennes first served aboard the USS Westchester County, an LST then permanently stationed in Yokosuka, Japan. He then applied to the Naval Security Group for duty and subsequently served tours in the Pentagon, one year on the staff of Vice Admiral Kleber Masterson, then Commander U.S. Second Fleet aboard the heavy cruiser USS Newport News, a brief tour aboard the USS Liberty as the ship's electronic materiel officer, a three year assignment in Bremerhaven, Germany, and three tours at Naval Security Group Headquarters in Washington, DC.

Ennes has long been a champion of free speech, civil liberties, and ethnic understanding. During his last Navy assignment in Washington, DC, he volunteered as a collateral duty to direct the new human rights and race relations education program for the large naval station employing several thousand people. The program he designed and managed was recognized by the Navy Inspector General as "unexcelled elsewhere in the Navy". During the same three year period, Ennes's large communications department achieved a previously unprecedented record of no lost messages during the three years of his tenure. For these accomplishments was awarded the "Navy Achievement Medal" for sustained exceptional performance. For comparison, when Liberty was attacked, part of the blame was attributed to the fact that six messages to the ship directing her to move from the area were all lost or mishandled.

He researched and wrote the book Assault on the Liberty during the period between the attack in 1967 and his retirement from the Navy as a lieutenant commander in 1978. The book was accepted for publication by Random House in 1978, and was released for sale in February, 1980, after very extensive legal and factual review and verification. "Assault on the Liberty" has sold more than 110,000 copies in six hardcover printings by Random House, one paperback edition by Ballantine Books, an overseas Arabic language edition by the Language Management Institute in Cyprus and four privately reprinted "perfect bound" editions by Reintree Press and printed by Signature Book Printing Company of Gaithersburg, Maryland . Many people in the industry believe that sales have been severely restricted because of sabotage in the distribution pipeline which caused delays and blockages in production and distribution.

fanaskin · Sep 9, 2013

Siddar_sl said:
No it wasn't. Arabs were aligned with Soviets and Israel was more of a French ally not a US ally at that time. US wasn't going to send troops to protect Syria from the Jews when it had real national interests in the fight. US has avoided direct involvement in all Israeli conflicts until after they had ended. 1967 wasn't going to be different.

Ok I need to find a better answer.

apparently at least some Jews viewed America as a complicit almost dangerous enemy

President Lyndon Johnson fails to find a diplomatic solution. He offers no aid to Israel's suffering economy, no warning to the Arabs not to attack, and no offer to aid Israel if the Arabs attack. Instead, he asks Israel to refrain from any military action so he can have more time for diplomacy. McGeorge Bundy, the President's National Security Advisor, even declares in public that "America is neutral in thought, word and deed."

John Loftus, in his book The Secret War Against the Jews devotes an entire chapter to the Liberty incident. Israel wanted to demonstrate good faith towards America: "Realizing the danger of a massed Arab attack, the Israelis informed the United States of their intention to launch a preemptive strike, which the CIA promptly betrayed to the Arabs. (page 259 of Loftus' book)" But the Egyptians distrusted America and discounted the information.

Loftus argues that the NSA, presumably acting alone, wanted to convince a skeptical Egypt that, despite their siding with the Soviets and their aggression against Israel, the US was really on their side, contrary to US public opinion. This is how an apparently rogue American agency decided to spy against Israel during wartime and secretly aid Israel's Egyptian enemy.

According to Loftus, the USS Liberty, a super high-tech intelligence ship, would spy on Israeli forces fighting in the Sinai while providing secret real-time battlefield intelligence to the Egyptian military. This would significantly increase Israeli casualties and conceivably affect the outcome of the war. Israel was not supposed to discover this secret American betrayal, but they did and decided to only disable, but not to sink, the 'enemy' ship.

Jewish paranoia? is that a good enough reason?

Araysar · Sep 9, 2013

Regardless of the motive, there are several facts which are indisputable.

1. IAF knew they were attacking a US warship.
2. They continued the attack with full knowledge that they were assaulting a US warship
3. They attempted to use jammers during strafing runs to block communications and specifically targeted the bridge and communication arrays

This wasn't some case of mistaken identity, this was a planned and executed attack on what was fully known ahead of time to be a US warship. These are the people that the derpers here would rather support because they think that the Zionists are on our side. The Zionists use US just like they use everyone else to promote their goals. We fight all the wars for them and isolate all their enemies. Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Libya. When has the IDF ever fought with us or fought for our interests?

Wake up and realize how deeply they have infiltrated our government and how much they puppeteer us to the point where they kill our soldiers intentionally and have us argue amongst ourselves as to the "intent" when all evidence points at malicious intent.

Siddar · Sep 9, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
First of all, he corrected himself and said that they were Bullpup missiles, not nuclear missiles.

Second of all, who is this "nutcase"?

Who is Jim Ennes and why is he telling these awful lies about Israel?

Jim Ennes (James Marquis Ennes, Jr.), a survivor of the 1967 attack by Israel on the American intelligence ship USS Liberty and one of the creators of The USS Liberty Memorial Web Site, is an American citizen and a retired career US Naval Officer. He was born in New Jersey in 1933 and was raised in New York, Texas, Illinois, Washington State and California.
He attended high school in Alameda, California, and Irving, Texas, where he left in his senior year year during the Korean War to enlist in the US Navy. He subsequently served in naval communications in Yokosuka, Japan, and later as Navy Mail Clerk aboard the USS General G.M.Randall (TAP-115), a troop transport ship operating under the Military Sea Transportation Service.

Following his enlisted tour, he worked as an investigator for Retail Credit Company (now known as Equifax Corporation) while attending San Francisco State College at night on the GI Bill. Upon receiving his degree in business administration he applied for Naval Officer Candidate School and was commissioned in 1962. He has lived in the Pacific Northwest since he retired from the Navy in 1978.

During his commissioned service, Ennes first served aboard the USS Westchester County, an LST then permanently stationed in Yokosuka, Japan. He then applied to the Naval Security Group for duty and subsequently served tours in the Pentagon, one year on the staff of Vice Admiral Kleber Masterson, then Commander U.S. Second Fleet aboard the heavy cruiser USS Newport News, a brief tour aboard the USS Liberty as the ship's electronic materiel officer, a three year assignment in Bremerhaven, Germany, and three tours at Naval Security Group Headquarters in Washington, DC.

Ennes has long been a champion of free speech, civil liberties, and ethnic understanding. During his last Navy assignment in Washington, DC, he volunteered as a collateral duty to direct the new human rights and race relations education program for the large naval station employing several thousand people. The program he designed and managed was recognized by the Navy Inspector General as "unexcelled elsewhere in the Navy". During the same three year period, Ennes's large communications department achieved a previously unprecedented record of no lost messages during the three years of his tenure. For these accomplishments was awarded the "Navy Achievement Medal" for sustained exceptional performance. For comparison, when Liberty was attacked, part of the blame was attributed to the fact that six messages to the ship directing her to move from the area were all lost or mishandled.

He researched and wrote the book Assault on the Liberty during the period between the attack in 1967 and his retirement from the Navy as a lieutenant commander in 1978. The book was accepted for publication by Random House in 1978, and was released for sale in February, 1980, after very extensive legal and factual review and verification. "Assault on the Liberty" has sold more than 110,000 copies in six hardcover printings by Random House, one paperback edition by Ballantine Books, an overseas Arabic language edition by the Language Management Institute in Cyprus and four privately reprinted "perfect bound" editions by Reintree Press and printed by Signature Book Printing Company of Gaithersburg, Maryland . Many people in the industry believe that sales have been severely restricted because of sabotage in the distribution pipeline which caused delays and blockages in production and distribution.

Your source is a nutcase. Now go find another that will confirm US was about to attack Egypt in 1967 not using your original nutcases as the source of there information.

hodj · Sep 9, 2013

Siddar_sl said:
Your source is a nutcase. Now go find another that will confirm US was about to attack Egypt in 1967 not using your original nutcases as the source of there information.

Dysphemism fallacy and burden shifting fallacy.

Araysar · Sep 9, 2013

My source is a decorated Lieutenant Commander of the US Navy who was on the USS Liberty during the incident in question.

Your sources for anything that you have said... are?

Siddar · Sep 9, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
Regardless of the motive, there are several facts which are indisputable.

1. IAF knew they were attacking a US warship.
2. They continued the attack with full knowledge that they were assaulting a US warship
3. They attempted to use jammers during strafing runs to block communications and specifically targeted the bridge and communication arrays

This wasn't some case of mistaken identity, this was a planned and executed attack on what was fully known ahead of time to be a US warship. These are the people that the derpers here would rather support because they think that the Zionists are on our side. The Zionists use US just like they use everyone else to promote their goals. We fight all the wars for them and isolate all their enemies. Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Libya. When has the IDF ever fought with us or fought for our interests?

Wake up and realize how deeply they have infiltrated our government and how much they puppeteer us to the point where they kill our soldiers intentionally and have us argue amongst ourselves as to the "intent" when all evidence points at malicious intent.

One no proof of this. You posted claims of tapes supporting this but not the tapes. The tapes released were made after the attack of Israeli search and rescue efforts that happened well after the attack. Two see point one. Three not relevant to anything simply sound military tactics.

Siddar · Sep 9, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
My source is a decorated Lieutenant Commander of the US Navy who was on the USS Liberty during the incident in question.

Your sources for anything that you have said... are?

Your source is a nutcase.

I'm not making claims you are if the event happened as your nutcase claimed then there would be hundreds of people in chain of command that would be able to verify it and large amounts of documents to support it as well.

Araysar · Sep 9, 2013

Siddar_sl said:
One no proof of this. You posted claims of tapes supporting this but not the tapes. The tapes released were made after the attack of Israeli search and rescue efforts that happened well after the attack. Two see point one.

Please expand on this more fully.

fanaskin · Sep 9, 2013

There are multiple sources if you bother to look

There is more than one witness if you bother to look

Oliver Kirby, the NSA's deputy director for operations at the time of the Liberty attack, is quoted by the Tribune as confirming the existence of the transcripts, saying he personally read them.

"They said, 'We've got him in the zero,'" Kirby was quoted as saying, "whatever that meant - I guess the sights or something. And then one of them said, 'Can you see the flag?' They said 'Yes, it's U.S, it's U.S.' They said it several times, so there wasn't any doubt in anybody's mind that they knew it."

Kirby told the newspaper that the transcripts were "something that's bothered me all my life. I'm willing to swear on a stack of Bibles that we knew they knew."

The report also states that then U.S. defense secretary Robert McNamara ordered jets that had been dispatched to assist the Liberty turned around.

The Tribune quotes J.Q. "Tony" Hart, then a chief petty officer assigned to a U.S. Navy relay station in Morocco that handled communications between Washington and the 6th Fleet, as saying that he listened in as McNamara said, "President [Lyndon] Johnson is not going to go to war or embarrass an American ally over a few sailors."

Siddar · Sep 9, 2013

hodj_sl said:
Dysphemism fallacy and burden shifting fallacy.

How do you prove something that didn't happen didn't happen? Why is burden on me to prove Araysar's claims are false when he hasn't proven them correct.

hodj · Sep 9, 2013

Siddar_sl said:
How do you prove something that didn't happen didn't happen? Why is burden on me to prove Araysar's claims are false when he hasn't proven them correct.

The burden is on you because he's cited a credible source who can be considered an expert on the event and you've cited nothing but your assertion that that guy isn't credible because you say so.

And its burden shifting because once Araysar cited a credible source on the material, you turned to slander and demanding he find another source as the way to refute his claims.

As for how do you prove something that didn't happen didn't happen, I dunno, but since the event did happen, and people have written entire books on the subject, the burden is definitely on you to prove it never happened.

How does someone prove the sky is green? Its hard to prove your case when you're starting from a fundamentally wrong position, obviously, hence your frustration.

Araysar · Sep 9, 2013

Siddar_sl said:
Your source is a nutcase.

I'm not making claims you are if the event happened as your nutcase claimed then there would be hundreds of people in chain of command that would be able to verify it and large amounts of documents to support it as well.

My source is a respected, decorated high ranking US Naval veteran who was present in person at the incident on which his credibility is being questioned. Do you have any sources?

Do you have any such certificate?

Burnesto · Sep 9, 2013

Roll this back about 10 years and Siddar would be ardently defending Gulf of Tonkin as a real attack. Actually he probably still thinks that was real.

Tuco · Sep 9, 2013

hodj_sl said:
Dysphemism fallacy.

Learned a new word today. This was a very confusing wikipedia article =\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysphemism

War with Syria

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