War with Syria

hodj · Sep 10, 2013

Siddar_sl said:
He was not on the plane that he claims made the recording.

No, he was on the shipthat was attacked.

I come the view that the claims being made are not provable and is also being made by a nutcase.

Dysphemism. The man served a lifetime of honorable service in the military and ran an organization to commemorate the attack. Either cite some evidence he's a nutcase, or stop trying to frame the debate in a dishonest and disingenuous way that tries to call into question the credibility of a man who risked his life for this nation and then went on to serve it honorably for decades while honoring his brothers lost on that tragic day.

You can disregard the complete lack of evidence

Direct citations by more than 10 credible witnesses on the day of the attack is not a complete lack of evidence.

khalid · Sep 10, 2013

All this is a fucking distraction anyway. Araysar and many others try and use the USS Liberty as proof that Israel is evil or anti the US. That shit occurred in 1967 during the Six day war and pales in comparison to all the shitty things the countries around Israel have done to us.

The relationship between the US and Israel is much better than it was at the time and Israel is the only bright light in a sea of shitty anti-US countries in the middle east (well, lebanon isn't too bad). Yes, Israel has some radical religious problems. However, they fucking pale in comparison to any of its neighbors. I'm proud to be an ally of Israel, our only friend (though often a troublesome one) in the Middle East. The hatred of Israel by so many in the US saddens me. If we were surrounded by countries filled with religious fanatics that would rather die than live in peace with us, I hope we would be as restrained as Israel has been.

Siddar · Sep 10, 2013

Zhaun_sl said:
We had a thread on FoH about the USS Liberty. I specifically remember reading in several places and watching in a few videos government and navy people at the time saying that nuclear armed aircraft from the US Fleet were ready to go nuke Cairo when the USS Liberty was sunk, initially thinking it was a preemptive Egyptian attack. The thinking being at the time this was just another USA vs. USSR proxy war in the larger Cold War.

No one who was on board that ship and lived believed (or does believe as a few still live I think) that it was an accident. They reported the planes being way to close to be unable to see the US flag flying and small Israeli patrol boats getting close enough to engage them with automatic weapon fire to shoot up life rafts as they were being deployed. So... yeah.

US carriers at the time all carried nuclear weapons. Shifting from there to a nuclear attack on Egypt is a leap of logic not supported facts. Step back just five years prior to Cuban missile crisis to see how such a potential situation would have played out. If US was anywhere close to the use of nuclear weapon in 1967 then fact of matter would not be up for debate they would be well recorded and in history books not the rambling of internet conspiracy.

Araysar · Sep 10, 2013

Siddar_sl said:
He was not on the plane that he claims made the recording.The NSA says the plane didn't make any recordings.

On 2 July 2003, the National Security Agency released copies of the recordings made by the EC-121 and the resultant translations and summaries.

You can't be this fucking stupid.

khalid · Sep 10, 2013

Siddar, stop arguing with them. You can't prove a conspiracy theory to be false.

Just concede the point that the Liberty might have been blown up by Israel. So what? It happened in 1967 and is a drop in the bucket of the bullshit Syria, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other countries have given to the US.

Araysar · Sep 10, 2013

khalid_sl said:
All this is a fucking distraction anyway. Araysar and many others try and use the USS Liberty as proof that Israel is evil or anti the US. That shit occurred in 1967 during the Six day war and pales in comparison to all the shitty things the countries around Israel have done to us.

The relationship between the US and Israel is much better than it was at the time and Israel is the only bright light in a sea of shitty anti-US countries in the middle east (well, lebanon isn't too bad). Yes, Israel has some radical religious problems. However, they fucking pale in comparison to any of its neighbors. I'm proud to be an ally of Israel, our only friend (though often a troublesome one) in the Middle East. The hatred of Israel by so many in the US saddens me. If we were surrounded by countries filled with religious fanatics that would rather die than live in peace with us, I hope we would be as restrained as Israel has been.

Yeah, Israel changed so much in the last 50 years.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-w...israel-spying/

Oh wait, they are still spying on us, stealing from us, buying our elections and threatening our politicians.

US sees Israel, tight Mideast ally, as spy threat
stumbleupon: US sees Israel, tight Mideast ally, as spy threat digg: US Works With Sudan Government Suspected Of Aiding Genocide reddit: US sees Israel, tight Mideast ally, as spy threat del.icio.us: US sees Israel, tight Mideast ally, as spy threat
ADAM GOLDMAN AND MATT APUZZO | July 28, 2012 08:44 PM EST | AP

Compare other versions ?
WASHINGTON - The CIA station chief opened the locked box containing the sensitive equipment he used from his home in Tel Aviv, Israel, to communicate with CIA headquarters in Virginia, only to find that someone had tampered with it. He sent word to his superiors about the break-in.

The incident, described by three former senior U.S. intelligence officials, might have been dismissed as just another cloak-and-dagger incident in the world of international espionage, except that the same thing had happened to the previous station chief in Israel.

It was a not-so-subtle reminder that, even in a country friendly to the United States, the CIA was itself being watched.

hodj · Sep 10, 2013

I don't think they're evil, but they aren't and shouldn't be given nearly as much power and say in our government as they have, and again, the real issues I have have nothing to do with the Liberty, and everything to do with spying and selling our weapons tech to China, saving them billions in research and development costs to give them parity with our weapons systems while also giving them the opportunity to backwards engineer our shit and learn how to hack the fuck out of it in case we ever go to war with them.

khalid · Sep 10, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
Oh wait, they are still spying on us, stealing from us, buying our elections and threatening our politicians.

Everyone spies on everyone, yawn.

TrollfaceDeux · Sep 10, 2013

i dunno. if my friend was sneaking into my room to sniff my underwear, i would be pretty freaked out.

Araysar · Sep 10, 2013

khalid_sl said:
Everyone spies on everyone, yawn.

Does everyone buy our elections and threaten our politicians too?

Do we have one of these meetings for every other country in the world?

Or do we just allow the Zionists to pull our strings?

khalid · Sep 10, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
Does everyone buy our elections and threaten our politicians too?

Do we have one of these meetings for every other country in the world?

Or do we just allow the Zionists to pull our strings?

Oh god, Obama talking to an Israeli lobbying group? The horror!

Also, yeah, lots of other special interests lobby the president. So what?

Araysar · Sep 10, 2013

khalid_sl said:
Oh god, Obama talking to an Israeli lobbying group? The horror!

Also, yeah, lots of other special interests lobby the president. So what?

Name me a lobbying group for another country that POTUS speaks to on a regular basis

You're being willfully obtuse and it's painfully transparent.

khalid · Sep 10, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
You're being willfully obtuse and it's painfully transparent.

No, you are being hopelessly biased.

Israel is our only ally in the entire Middle East. If anything we should side with them more and trust the Saudi's way less.

Burnesto · Sep 10, 2013

What has Israel done for us recently besides bulldoze Palestinians?

Araysar · Sep 10, 2013

khalid_sl said:
No, you are being hopelessly biased.

Israel is our only ally in the entire Middle East. If anything we should side with them more and trust the Saudi's way less.

Here's what the current prime minister of our greatest ally thinks about 9/11

""We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor.""-- Benjamin Netanyahu

http://www.haaretz.com/news/report-n...srael-1.244044

With friends like these, who even needs enemies?

Araysar · Sep 10, 2013

More Bibi gems, from the Prime Minister of the most awesomest ally we have.

"In a video from 2001, Netanyahu, reportedly unaware he was being recorded, said: "I know what America is. America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction. They won't get in our way." Netanyahu also bragged how he undercut the peace process when he was prime minister during the Clinton administration. "They asked me before the election if I'd honor [the Oslo accords]," he said. "I said I would, but ... I'm going to interpret the accords in such a way that would allow me to put an end to this galloping forward to the '67 borders. How did we do it? Nobody said what defined military zones were. Defined military zones are security zones; as far as I'm concerned, the entire Jordan Valley is a defined military zone. Go argue.""

fanaskin · Sep 10, 2013

khalid_sl said:
Oh god, Obama talking to an Israeli lobbying group? The horror!

Also, yeah, lots of other special interests lobby the president. So what?

One of the first things every serious potential US presidential candidate for the last 60 years does is visit Israel, it's literally a requirement stop of a serious presidential candidacy.

Araysar · Sep 10, 2013

That reminds me of the time when Bibi openly tried to undermine our current sitting president in 2012 election and try to help and get Romney elected.

In December GOP Debate regarding how America should handle Iran:
ROMNEY: "I'd get on the phone to my friend Bibi Netanyahu and say, 'Would it help if I said this? What would you like me to do?'"

Araysar · Sep 10, 2013

Lets see how other Israeli Prime Ministers treat their best allies

""When we saw that the Secretary of State, for reasons we did not really understand, wanted to vote in favor of the U.N. resolution... I looked for President Bush and they told me he was in Philadelphia making a speech, I said, 'I don't care. I have to talk to him now'. They got him off the podium, brought him to another room and I spoke to him. I told him, 'You can't vote in favor of this resolution.' He said, 'Listen, I don't know about it, I didn't see it, I'm not familiar with the phrasing.' [I said to him] 'I'm familiar with it. You can't vote in favor.' He gave an order to the Secretary of State and she did not vote in favor of it -- a resolution she cooked up, phrased, organized and maneuvered for. She was left pretty shamed and abstained on a resolution she arranged" - Ehud Olmert, Reuters (13 Jan 2009) [5]""

fanaskin · Sep 10, 2013

Intercepts caught Assad rejecting requests to use chemical weapons, German paper says

Syrian President Bashar Assad has repeatedly rejected requests from his field commanders for approval to use chemical weapons, according to a report this weekend in a German newspaper.

~

The German intelligence briefing to lawmakers described by Bild am Sonntag fits neither narrative precisely. The newspaper's article said that on numerous occasions in recent months, the German intelligence ship named Oker, which is off the Syrian coast, has intercepted communications indicating that field officers have contacted the Syrian presidential palace seeking permission to use chemical weapons and have been turned down.

The article added that German intelligence does not believe Assad sanctioned the alleged attack on August 21.

War with Syria

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