Writers Guild Strike 2023

Goatface · Jul 14, 2023

LiquidDeath said:
Also, this is a guild strike so I don't know why non-guild members can't scab it up if the studios get desperate for content. There are plenty of wannabe writers and actors out there that will go for it. Shit, they have a built in supply of attention whores from Twitch, YouTube, etc to pull non-union "talent" from if the going got tough.

crossing the picket line is an instant ban from ever joining the any of the guilds, so your career would be mostly over once the strikes end. work at independent studios probably pays less than burger king.

Gravel · Jul 14, 2023

Goatface said:
crossing the picket line is an instant ban from ever joining the any of the guilds, so your career would be mostly over once the strikes end. work at independent studios probably pays less than burger king.

Gamble play.

Enough people cross and suddenly the guild is worthless as they're the ones blacklisted.

LiquidDeath · Jul 14, 2023

Goatface said:
crossing the picket line is an instant ban from ever joining the any of the guilds, so your career would be mostly over once the strikes end. work at independent studios probably pays less than burger king.

That is why I mentioned YouTubers and Twitch streamers. People who already have experience on camera playing to an audience who don't give a flying fuck about SAG. As for writers, fuck writers. There are far too many and the overwhelming majority are goddamn retarded. There are surely more than enough that don't give a fuck about ever being part of the writer's guild but are very interested in studio cash.

EDIT: Also, the unions are exactly why this mess exists in the first place. The actors and writers may not be bulking the outrageous production budgets on these new movies, but the

Juvarisx didn't bring up the union grips and union every-goddamn-thing-else jobs that make it impossible to reign in budgets when it is necessary. I don't feel sorry for these studios at all, I hope they all burn to the ground, but they only bear part of the responsibility for the current situation.

spronk · Jul 14, 2023

the biggest issue is streaming.

in the past hollywood would make tv/movie shows, get paid decent, but then make a decent living over the next 20 years as local network TV stations and international TV would play tv shows and movies and earn money from ads and all that money would get paid out to everyone involved. Everyone took their cut of the decent pie and everyone was happy. HBO upended it a little bit in the late 90s by instead charging a sub fee and no ads, but still they'd pull in $2 billion in subs, spend $1 billion on content, pay out another $750m in residuals every time something aired, and keep the tiny bit left over as profit.

netflix completely upended all that. They got $23 billion in 2022 in sub fees (more than double the entire US box office). They spent way more than that on content, but they keep that content FOREVER and they don't pay residuals. Everyone now wants part of that sub revenue, but that would completely break HBO, Disney, Apple TV, Netflix, Paramount+, etc as those businesses built on tech industry bones are built on creating giant content libraries they pay for once and never again, and controlling the spending dial as they need. They don't want to give the stars of Stranger Things a part of the sub revenue in 2035, their logic is "we paid once thats it".

Which has worked for a long time now but as all the ad driven network TV revenue has dried up to nothing, actors and writers are realizing the new paradigm is a shit deal for them but they were so bamboozled by all the netflix, apple, quibi, amazon, etc deals the last few years which dropped big bags of money, ONCE ONLY, that they were too stupid to realize the scorpion they were in bed with was a scorpion.

If the streamers are forced out to pay residuals similar to network TV, which is what the workers want, then they would have to cut back on content by like 90% as right now they use all the sub money to fund new content but now it would have to be split between new content and paying residuals for stuff people watch, and they'd have to share out what gets watched and how much (beyond top 10).

Ishad · Jul 14, 2023

LiquidDeath said:
That is why I mentioned YouTubers and Twitch streamers. People who already have experience on camera playing to an audience who don't give a flying fuck about SAG. As for writers, fuck writers. There are far too many and the overwhelming majority are goddamn retarded. There are surely more than enough that don't give a fuck about ever being part of the writer's guild but are very interested in studio cash.

EDIT: Also, the unions are exactly why this mess exists in the first place. The actors and writers may not be bulking the outrageous production budgets on these new movies, but the Juvarisx didn't bring up the union grips and union every-goddamn-thing-else jobs that make it impossible to reign in budgets when it is necessary. I don't feel sorry for these studios at all, I hope they all burn to the ground, but they only bear part of the responsibility for the current situation.

Yeah, I can’t imagine people paying to see Logan Paul star in an AI written movie.

OU Ariakas · Jul 14, 2023

Ishad said:
Yeah, I can’t imagine people paying to see Logan Paul star in an AI written movie.

How much fucking worse could that be than The Marvels or The Flash? It sure as fuck would cost a fraction of those pieces of shit.

OU Ariakas · Jul 14, 2023

spronk said:
the biggest issue is streaming.

in the past hollywood would make tv/movie shows, get paid decent, but then make a decent living over the next 20 years as local network TV stations and international TV would play tv shows and movies and earn money from ads and all that money would get paid out to everyone involved. Everyone took their cut of the decent pie and everyone was happy. HBO upended it a little bit in the late 90s by instead charging a sub fee and no ads, but still they'd pull in $2 billion in subs, spend $1 billion on content, pay out another $750m in residuals every time something aired, and keep the tiny bit left over as profit.

netflix completely upended all that. They got $23 billion in 2022 in sub fees (more than double the entire US box office). They spent way more than that on content, but they keep that content FOREVER and they don't pay residuals. Everyone now wants part of that sub revenue, but that would completely break HBO, Disney, Apple TV, Netflix, Paramount+, etc as those businesses built on tech industry bones are built on creating giant content libraries they pay for once and never again, and controlling the spending dial as they need. They don't want to give the stars of Stranger Things a part of the sub revenue in 2035, their logic is "we paid once thats it".

Which has worked for a long time now but as all the ad driven network TV revenue has dried up to nothing, actors and writers are realizing the new paradigm is a shit deal for them but they were so bamboozled by all the netflix, apple, quibi, amazon, etc deals the last few years which dropped big bags of money, ONCE ONLY, that they were too stupid to realize the scorpion they were in bed with was a scorpion.

If the streamers are forced out to pay residuals similar to network TV, which is what the workers want, then they would have to cut back on content by like 90% as right now they use all the sub money to fund new content but now it would have to be split between new content and paying residuals for stuff people watch, and they'd have to share out what gets watched and how much (beyond top 10).

This means the model needs to change just like for the restaurant model to grow they need to figure out something to replace tipping culture. It may have started out good for everyone but it has become a hinderance to real growth and change of those industries. I cannot wait to see the startups that challenge them but I welcome it.

Angerz · Jul 14, 2023

OU Ariakas said:
How much fucking worse could that be than The Marvels or The Flash? It sure as fuck would cost a fraction of those pieces of shit.

Since they are paying the writers almost nothing, and 99% of the actors next to nothing, not that much less.

Hoss · Jul 14, 2023

Ambiturner said:
Are you talking about the commercial actor strike? Because Survivor came out 7 years before the last writer's strike

I think I answered this about 6 posts before you wrote this. If not, please restate the question.

Penance · Jul 14, 2023

ShakyJake said:
The Actors Guild (or whoever) has mandated that shows/movies MUST have a certain amount of diversity to be considered for awards. So that's one reason you see a lot of shit where it doesn't even make sense.

Dunno how true that is because Banshees of Inisherin won a few and don't remember a single non white character in that

Juvarisx · Jul 14, 2023

Penance said:
Dunno how true that is because Banshees of Inisherin won a few and don't remember a single non white character in that

It's true but the requirements are so broad, you could just have women running the costume department like they already do and qualify.

Anyways, can blame unions or grips or whatever fact is, as Matt Damon put it studios do not want to make the 50-100 million dollar movie anymore because there isn't money in it due to streaming. Streaming truly did fuck the industry, now if a studio doesn't make a Avatar sized movie and make the profit of an Avatar sized movie it aint worth it and its fucked everything. So now you have studios throwing the kitchen sink at a Indy movie that shouldn't cost $400 million or whatever cause it needs to be "the best", then it bombs and everyone gets fucked.

I really don't blame writers for fighting back against AI nor the state of writing rooms or residuals. Its hard to get mad at the actors for wanting residuals from streaming services since that's all that exists now and of course they would want that since there was residuals on everything else. This was always coming, and no, noone wants to see Logan Paul with an AI script instead of a new Mission Impossible movie.

Juvarisx · Jul 14, 2023

Actually fuck the studios, this is going to be a long mess

Striking actors say rejected 'AI proposal' would let studios use their likeness without fair pay

The AMPTP says the proposal was designed to 'protect performers' digital likenesses.'

www.engadget.com

"In that 'groundbreaking AI proposal,' they propose that our background performers should be able to be scanned, get paid for one day's pay, and the company should own that scan, their image, their likeness, and be able to use it for the rest of eternity in any project they want with no consent and no compensation,"

Penance · Jul 14, 2023

Studios are gay. Actors are fake. Writers are both fake and gay. Fuck em all I hope nobody gets what they want. I still have a backlog to last me a lifetime in shows and movies. Been getting on the Turner Classic hype (thank god for Spielberg and crew for coming to the rescue on that).

But this does pose an interesting issue that will set precedent for years to come on AI, copyright and using somebody's likeness.

Phazael · Jul 14, 2023

Chukzombi said:
aww, i love youtube, everything i want or need is a click away for free.

Yes we are well aware of your track record as it pertains to entertainment critiques.

Chukzombi · Jul 14, 2023

Phazael said:
Yes we are well aware of your track record as it pertains to entertainment critiques.

Ambiturner · Jul 14, 2023

Hoss said:
I think I answered this about 6 posts before you wrote this. If not, please restate the question.

Then I guess I'll just disagree. Real World was MTV which didn't really do scripted anything so a strike wouldn't affect them at all. Much less 4 years after a strike.

The later reality craze was a response to high stakes game shows like "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?" that led to things like Survivor and Big Brother with big cash prizes which then morphed into what we have today.

Hoss · Jul 14, 2023

Juvarisx said:
Actually fuck the studios, this is going to be a long mess

Striking actors say rejected 'AI proposal' would let studios use their likeness without fair pay

The AMPTP says the proposal was designed to 'protect performers' digital likenesses.'

www.engadget.com

"In that 'groundbreaking AI proposal,' they propose that our background performers should be able to be scanned, get paid for one day's pay, and the company should own that scan, their image, their likeness, and be able to use it for the rest of eternity in any project they want with no consent and no compensation,"

First episode of the latest season of Black Mirror was Joan is Awful. It's like that episode was written with all this in mind.

Gravel · Jul 14, 2023

Juvarisx said:
Actually fuck the studios, this is going to be a long mess

Striking actors say rejected 'AI proposal' would let studios use their likeness without fair pay

The AMPTP says the proposal was designed to 'protect performers' digital likenesses.'

www.engadget.com

"In that 'groundbreaking AI proposal,' they propose that our background performers should be able to be scanned, get paid for one day's pay, and the company should own that scan, their image, their likeness, and be able to use it for the rest of eternity in any project they want with no consent and no compensation,"

You can say fuck them all. Don't have to side with the lesser of two (or three) evils. They're all shitheads.

Fucker · Jul 14, 2023

Juvarisx said:
Anyways, can blame unions or grips or whatever fact is, as Matt Damon put it studios do not want to make the 50-100 million dollar movie anymore because there isn't money in it due to streaming. Streaming truly did fuck the industry, now if a studio doesn't make a Avatar sized movie and make the profit of an Avatar sized movie it aint worth it and its fucked everything. So now you have studios throwing the kitchen sink at a Indy movie that shouldn't cost $400 million or whatever cause it needs to be "the best", then it bombs and everyone gets fucked.

I really don't blame writers for fighting back against AI nor the state of writing rooms or residuals. Its hard to get mad at the actors for wanting residuals from streaming services since that's all that exists now and of course they would want that since there was residuals on everything else. This was always coming, and no, noone wants to see Logan Paul with an AI script instead of a new Mission Impossible movie.

I don't blame the people on the ground making these movies. Most of the people on a set get paid fuck all to be there and fuck all afterward. Remember character actors? People we saw in a lot of moves but never really knew who they were? In the 90's, they could make $500k a year easy which was damn good money, but that money has nearly completely vanished. One well known character actress said her pay went down to low $70k's for work she used to take home half a million on.

ALL the streaming services are trying to fuck everyone on residuals; actors, writers, set people...anyone involved in the production that used to get residuals are getting shanked, and these people aren't paid well to begin with.

To give you an idea how wide the pay gap is, the first Avenger film had ONE guy making bank, the rest got peanuts. $100-$200k and only RDJ got the 10MM+ payola.

Everyone used to make a living at making movies, but all that is going away thanks to streaming...something everyone is losing their asses on.

The fix is easy. Theatrical release, DVD release, then 1-2 years later a limited streaming release. Who will be the first to go back to the way things were?

Chukzombi · Jul 14, 2023

Fucker said:
I don't blame the people on the ground making these movies. Most of the people on a set get paid fuck all to be there and fuck all afterward. Remember character actors? People we saw in a lot of moves but never really knew who they were? In the 90's, they could make $500k a year easy which was damn good money, but that money has nearly completely vanished. One well known character actress said her pay went down to low $70k's for work she used to take home half a million on.

ALL the streaming services are trying to fuck everyone on residuals; actors, writers, set people...anyone involved in the production that used to get residuals are getting shanked, and these people aren't paid well to begin with.

To give you an idea how wide the pay gap is, the first Avenger film had ONE guy making bank, the rest got peanuts. $100-$200k and only RDJ got the 10MM+ payola.

Everyone used to make a living at making movies, but all that is going away thanks to streaming...something everyone is losing their asses on.

The fix is easy. Theatrical release, DVD release, then 1-2 years later a limited streaming release. Who will be the first to go back to the way things were?

those stars of the disney star wars films, rey, finn, kyl, poe made next to nothing for the 4 billion dollars that those 3 films generated. rey, the star and bestest ever made 12 million pounds for all three. 15.7m us dollars. total. after taxes and publicist, manager and whatever else cuts. whats that? 5million?

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