Cruella (2021)

Mist said:

Disney fucking sucks and you're not going to get an argument out of me on that one. My point is just that, it's just bad management and bad decision-making over at Disney, not some grand conspiracy of some larger ideological cult.

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This is another straw man--I don't think its some grand conspiracy; I don't even disagree with you that its mostly bad (Impotent) management. I don't even think all the people at the top believe in this shit (Some do, not all). I think you have a bad clash of dominant lobbying organizations constantly pushing what they want to see in films and scaring the executives (Much like the family values groups used to do), combined with the 'artistic' circles (Mainly springing from academia) in Hollywood becoming echo chambers.

So you have management who is afraid to push back, and increasingly stupid ideological themes are presented. This is worse at some studios and not so bad at others. Its especially pernicious at Disney right now because they are absolutely infested with lobbying "consultants".

Its as simple as that.

the best part of this whole diatribe is that mist is right. no one asked for a movie about cruella. she is cartoonishly one-dimensional in how evil she is. "we need a villian for this new kids movie about puppies..." "oh, i know, how bout an old hag who wants to turn cute puppies into garishly expensive fur coats?"

the idea of turning cruella into the protaganist is some backwards artistic direction.

that being said, we're all pre-programmed to think mist is a lunatic so if she says something that actually makes sense we have to immediately change our opinion. it's pretty great

Mist said:

Nobody was lobbying to make a movie about a bitch who skins puppies.

This is what should have happened:

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They are lobbying for female empowerment films and correcting Disney's history of "misogyny" and "racism". Artists who are desperate to be noticed, know these lobbying demands are being made--and so tailor ideas to give the executives fresh meat.

No one specifically asked for this, but the generalized demands bring about specific virtue signaling. You keep trying to make straw mans because you know how this stuff happens. Its not some evil grand plan.

Mist said:

Um, Joker? Hello?

How about all the Hannibal Lecter movies that try to make him more identifiable.

Brightburn was an example of a movie that tried to show how society could turn a young boy Superman-analogue into a villain.

Sorry, it's not just chicks.

And my point is that trying to humanize Cruella is even dumber than trying to humanize Hannibal Lecter, it's literally like trying to make a Buffalo Bill movie. "THE PUPPY PUTS THE LOTION ON ITS SKIN."

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Brightburn was turned evil by a mindcontrol spaceship, DESPITE society and a good upbringing.

Chronicle, was more " we live in a Society".


Lector and joker examples don't sound right. I haven't seen this one to know how apt it is... But, those movies, don't really humanize them much. its more peering into the mind of a sick person. its touching evil, not "oh I see why they are evil, I too would do that". As compared to Wicked, Malecifant, and Frozen kindof. where it is saying, well this evil person wasn't REALLY evil.

Not alot of rewriting male villain's into secretly good, in terms of mainstream. In comics themselves. very much so. Magneto. Even the movies, humanized him a ton. Comics have gone even further with Magento a core part of the Xmen these days. Lex luther has had some "not so bad" times. Sinestro is usually right.
Big recent mainstream one is Loki of course. well see how that goes. loki used to be pure evil. sexy loki took over, and, he is now 50/50 relatable... but always ends up fucking everyone over on purpose.


Cruella really is just an odd choice. awful character. weird time period, so they can't really do that much, without it seeming insane. like, idk, 90% of the trailers..

Ursula is a character they could have easily given a good backstory too. Although already a bit similar to Malecifant.
Old fading seawitch, who once lived in the palace, and was banished, still makes deals with Mer-folk to grant them wishes.

some of you guys are missing the point. Disney told us what its doing a month ago with Sam's speech at the end of Falcon and Winter soldier. we need to empathize with the terrorists. nobody we know as bad is really bad, they are just misunderstood. its us who are in the wrong. the only bad people are the rich and white people holding all the power. Cruella isnt bad, she was just a victim of the system. Lector was always bad because he was white and rich. Cruella gets a pass because vagina, but she would be bad if she were male. nobody asked for these movies, nobody wanted these movies, but they are making these movies anyway and if you watch it or not doesnt even matter because now they can remove the past and shoehorn in this alternate reality.

Relevant.

I do love the Pitch Meetings though.

Mist said:

You can't just lump 5 totally different people together. I'll concede on the Hillary Clinton point, she'd definitely skin puppies to gain 2% share with a demographic, EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT LITERALLY NOBODY ON ANY POLITICAL SIDE OF ANY POLITICAL SPECTRUM SUPPORTS PUPPY SKINNING.

There is just no way to make Cruella Deville a sympathetic character, and for that alone she's a good analogue for Hillary Clinton, but the rest of your post is nonsense.

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I dunno, Muslims hate dogs. Ilhan Omar would probably skin puppies.

I may be mistaken, not sure where I know this from, but wasn't there a period in history where drowning bags of newborn puppies or kittens was fairly commonplace for population control?

Raes said:

I may be mistaken, not sure where I know this from, but wasn't there a period in history where drowning bags of newborn puppies or kittens was fairly commonplace for population control?

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pretty sure there was a cartoon, either looney tunes or tom & jerry where somebody throws a sack of puppies off a bridge and tom or somebody else saves them and all the puppies follow him around for the entire cartoon.

Raes said:

I may be mistaken, not sure where I know this from, but wasn't there a period in history where drowning bags of newborn puppies or kittens was fairly commonplace for population control?

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Basically most of history.

Gavinmad said:

Basically most of history.

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Cool. Wasn't sure, since while I've come across it in fiction from time to time, never heard anything about it an actual history book. Not that I've studied much history.

Anyways, my point is, making a coat out of puppy skins only makes Cruella evil because, in the movie, the puppies talk? lol I've always found it rather hilarious that all cultures have these lists of what animals are okay to skin and/or eat and which aren't. Leary used to do a bit about it.

Raes said:

Cool. Wasn't sure, since while I've come across it in fiction from time to time, never heard anything about it an actual history book. Not that I've studied much history.

Anyways, my point is, making a coat out of puppy skins only makes Cruella evil because, in the movie, the puppies talk? lol I've always found it rather hilarious that all cultures have these lists of what animals are okay to skin and/or eat and which aren't. Leary used to do a bit about it.

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maybe because we consider dog as man's best friend. you dont skin your best friend. the heathen chinee dont see it that way.

Chukzombi said:

maybe because we consider dog as man's best friend. you dont skin your best friend. the heathen chinee dont see it that way.

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Being man's best friend didn't stop puppies from being drowned at birth, nor does it prevent strays that don't get adopted from being euthanized. But I guess skinning and eating is different from simply killing them. Gotta leave that for the ugly animals.